Question about glue used to hold grill cloth in place

I've been registered with this forum for some time but have rarely visited . Old habits die hard, I guess. So, for 2013 I thought I'd try to be a more regular visitor and start by asking this question.

I'm working on a mid-1930s cabinet from a Sparton wood table-top. I need to remove the grill cloth, but glue was liberally brushed around the inside of the speaker opening (by the factory) to tack it in place. I was wondering if there's a solvent, or at least a softener/partial solvent, that would allow me to carefully remove the grill cloth. Of course, 1) we'd need to know what they used for furniture glue, and 2) it would have to be a product that wouldn't damage or discolor the cloth.

Any thoughts?

Tom

If you are trying to remove the cloth without ruinning it, I'd reccommend forgetting that. Add the the gllue the age, and, probable deteriation of the fabric, I'd say the chances of saving the original are not very good.
Welcome to TRF.
Bill Cahill

Bill is right on this. However....

The glue used "back in the day" was animal based. You may have heard the old saying that an old horse "is headed for the glue factory." The glue used to hold the grill cloth on will probably come loose with a steam iron. I have done this a couple times where the fabric was in exceptional condition. Your chances of removing old grill cloth successfully and being able to re-use it is extremely slim. It will surely have faded where it is exposed to light, and be unfaded where it is covered by the cabinet. It will likely be rotted from age. Something "close" should be available and acceptable to replace the old cloth.

With a wood cabinet, you should use caution that you do not use enough steam to dissolve the same animal glue holding the plywood of the cabinet together when you attempt to steam the grill cloth to remove it. Delaminating the cabinet trying to salvage a worthless piece of cloth would, indeed, be a major bummer. Good luck.

Regards

WC

Thanks to both of you. BTW, I'm old enough to remember horses headed to the glue factory .

If steaming causes delamination, that would actually be a plus. The cabinet has areas of delamination where a certain amount of disassembly would make the restoration easier, believe it or not. Anyway, I'll give it a shot and see what happens with the grill cloth.

I'd post a photo but haven't gotten around to learning how to do that yet. But I will in due course.

Tom

I use vinegar as it dissolves the glue. I believe its a 50/50 vinegar and water mix.

Anytime I get an old glue that doesn't behave normally I resort to kerosene. Most of these old ones seem to crystalise and fall part easily after a careful brush-applied kerosene coat. I use a lamp-oil my wife gave me from the lamps we have for power outages. Smells like bubble gum to me. (works wonders on RTV also)

I am going out to shop in a minute and will check my Gunk to Glow/Furniture Doctor texts. George Grotz has a way of dealing with odd stuff. I highly recommend his old books should you find them.
Tony

If you use liquids on the cloth it will soak in and stain it . Hot irons do not stain . A fire will also remove the cloth

I can remember hide glue in wood shop and art classes, they always had it in a electric pot to keep it hot. That worked pretty good on wood projects and fabrics that you wanted to glue.

After steaming the cloth off the backing, with table model size grille cloths, I wash them in the washer, sandwiching them between a couple sheets of this material. I've had good results using a spray of 3parts Tide liquid to water. I saturate it and wash on delicate and cold.

http://shop.hobbylobby.com/products/clear-7-count-ultra-stiff-plastic-canvas-sheet-161422/

The problem washing old grille cloth is that it shrinks quite a bit .

Washing them in the support has held down the shrinkage pretty well. After partially drying in a rolled up dish towel, I give it a light pressing and that draws out the fabric near to the original dimension. It loses less of it's dimension to fraying, also.

After reading these posts on removing the cloth I am wondering something. Has anyone tried these spray on cans that is suppose to be like dry cleaning? Or what about the spray on cleaners for carpet then lightly vacuum the cloth?

I've been around glues and solvents my entire life and they all act differently. Each person develops different techniques and uses different supplies to achieve this. I'd suggest some experimentation. I use a microwave for debonding many glues. I'm careful because some can react in dramatic fashion but I've saved many projects with some educated nuking.

I have had a lot of success using a q-tip and kerosene on just about any glue that has a flexible component to it (other than epoxy). If used sparingly and carefully it crystallizes and falls apart. I never put enough on it to soak in and the few times it did I was able to remove most of it with ispropyll alcohol. I see the mention of vinegar. I think this is similar.

It pays to experiment if you can do it. "Technique" trumps absolutes. Use the radios that come in that are going straight to the parts shelf. It's our envelope. Push it.

Tony

Any cloth i have washed in water all shrunk just enough so it would not cover the grille anymore . If i try to stretch it or pull on it , it tends to rip . I find the back side of some of it looks real good so fliping it over works good at times without washing

The cloth that doesn't shrink and is pretty aged, will likely fall apart on you. Even some good looking cloth I thought I could very gently wash, literally fell apart
Some speaker boards, the cloth will actually lift right off of the glue. It's all a crapshoot, you will have to analyze each situation.

If the cloth is basically ok except for a hanging corner or edge, your best bet would be to glue it back down and leave it alone. If it's filthy and torn, you're gonna need new cloth anyhow.

I had posted the same question on the Philco phorum and the reply was to use the vinegar and water 50/50 solution.. I have a Rogers 10-12
and that solution did a fine job. just get the area wet where the glue is , wait a few minutes and the grill cloth will come off easily.
If it does not come off soak it with more solution and wait a little longer.. it worked fine for me .. It might depend on the type of glue that was
used.. I believe that on my 10-12 it was hide glue.

Well, vinegar is a mild acid. I can see where it might work. Thanks for sharing. Just be careful how wet you get the board..... Those are also plywood held together with liquid hyde glue.

willy3486 wrote:After reading these posts on removing the cloth I am wondering something. Has anyone tried these spray on cans that is suppose to be like dry cleaning? Or what about the spray on cleaners for carpet then lightly vacuum the cloth?

the dry cleaning sprays and pastes are usually solvents with an absorbent material mixed with it. The solvent saturates the cloth dissolving what it can, mostly oil based stain material, then the absorbent soaks up the stain material as it dries. Then you brush off the absorbent.