Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

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Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Thu Jul 13, 2017 10:34 pm

Hello everyone, today I received from a buddy I met on the AFCA (Antique Fan Collectors Association) Forum a couple of pre-war radios one of them being a 1940 Fada Model 176 of which there seems to be very little in the way of information about them on the internet it seems, and the unit in question, I took it apart to see what all kinds of repairs it was going to need (it was clearly going to need a new cord because the original rubber cord was cut off and what was left of it was dry rotted) and I saw right away that the original electrolytic filter capacitor can was replaced at some point in its life, probably back in the 1960s because the replacement capacitors where axial leaded dry electrolytic capacitors that were mounted under the chassis and at that they were mounted in a rather sloppy manner (so sloppy that I wondered how on earth the radio even worked because one of the filter caps wasn't even soldered into place, it just sat there, and also one of the original paper coupling capacitors had one of its leads snapped off (also making me wonder how this thing even managed to work without any sort of electrical issues). Anyways the cabinet is in really nice shape and even still has the original wooded knobs yet intact, but the guts of the radio are not so much in very good shape.

Any help, tips or tricks would be appreciated.

-Levi

Sorry for no pictures, not sure how to use the file upload feature (thought I did but then it says Max. File size 0MB?! How is that possible?!)

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by jukeboxman on Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:30 am

Hello and welcome to TRF --at the top of each topic is a great tutorial on posting photos -PLEASE read it -it is very helpful

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:32 pm

Thanks, I will do that.

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Fri Jul 14, 2017 12:54 pm












As you can see from the pictures this radio has lived a pretty rough life and has had some pretty bad repair jobs done to it over the years so I have a large task ahead of me.

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by Tony V on Fri Jul 14, 2017 6:13 pm

Yes, It looks like you have a job ahead of you but I am sure you can handle it. You will need a good schematic to check against what you have as who knows what has been changed or if there are improperly installed components yet to be discovered. Luckily the new components are much smaller so it will be easy going back. Fada's are nice performing radio's so i'm sure you will be pleased when finished.
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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Fri Jul 14, 2017 7:08 pm

Thanks, The only schematic I could find was in the Rider's Manual, and that schematic is rather hard to read. Do you know if Sam's or Beitman's covered this radio or not?

Also I find that the adjustable loop antenna is a rather nice touch, kind of primative looking but does the job. Its kind of interesting that this radio has a knob adjustable loop antenna in it because the Germans did that in some of their radios back in the 1950s, with companies like Grundig and Saba for example.

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:29 pm

OK so I've taken a look at the this Fada Radio more extensively today and it seems that the tuning capacitor and thus the tuning mechanism in general hangs up at about halfway down the dial, I tried lubricating the tuning capacitor's bearings but to no avail. when you turn it by hand from the "flywheel" of the tuning capacitor where the dial string threads through the lower you go with it the more resistance to turning the tuning capacitor gives, almost as if its got some bent fins but I looked at it carefully and it doesn't appear to have any bent fins so I'm not sure what's going on with it. It also acts almost like the dial string was restrung at some point in time but it wasn't restrung properly possibly.

any ideas or thoughts?

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:03 pm

OK so I looked at the Schematice for this radio over at Nostalgia Air in their Rider's Collection, but can't make heads or tails as to how the filter capacitor circuit is supposed to be wired, from what I was seeing the Filter cap is a single 16/16 MFD Can that was originally mounted ontop of the chassis, but the schematic doesn't list any voltage rating for the said capacitor unless I'm missing something, so I'll attach a link to the schematic to this message and maybe you guys can take a look at it and see what the schematic is saying about how the Power supply filter caps were supposed to be wired up. Link to Fada 176 Schematics

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by Tony V on Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:30 pm

In radio's of that vintage and concidering it has a power transformer and field coil speaker, the working voltage of the filter cap's should be 450 volt's.
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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:43 pm

OK so a 16/16 MFD @ 450 Volts? I think AES has one of those in the can capacitor form in their inventory, but of course trying to make sense of how to wire that new capacitor back into the circuit like it was originally and to do away with that rats nest of a repair job that someone did previously that wasn't even done correctly to begin with is going to be the tricky part because there are wires and resistors and capacitors strung all over the place in there with some capacitors going to places that aren't labeled on the schematic as having capacitors attached to originally. I will definitely need help deciphering that Schematic and trying to figure out what wires go where on the new capacitor when I get it in.

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by Chas on Thu Aug 31, 2017 12:46 pm

Levi,

You will need basing diagrams of the tubes. These can be found online at several tube information sites. Print these enlarged, on separate pages. The base is what is seen from the underside of the chassis. Or, get a copy of an RCA Triple Pindex. This is a loose binder of three sets of tube base diagrams, permitting the view of three tubes at once, generally, when trouble shooting, have three bases in view is adequate...

To begin, it is good to know if the radio has serious issues with certain components.

- Replace the power cord or use a temporary cord set.

- Check the AC input connections and connections to the rectifier for any potential shorts and remove the rectifier.

- Power the set. the tubes and pilot light should illuminate. Wait some 5 to 20 minutes. if the transformer does not overheat then it is good. Power off and remove line cord from wall outlet.

- In the Riders schematic there is data on the coils, measure all the coils for continuity all should be good. Measure the output transformer and the two restores that comprise a voltage divider for the negative feedback loop. Check the voice coil too.

- Caveat, modern DVM's have a problem measuring resistance of inductors because of reactance. Use a VOM from 5 to 20k ohms/volt or a VTVM.

- This schematic has old school notation for resistors the lower case "m" is thousands, where modern is "k".

- Stuff the 2x16mf or use suitable tie strips and place the replacement caps below chassis, completely disconnect the old electrolytic capacitor. Use 22mf, 16's are no longer made.

- Replace any other electrolytics.

- Replace the signal grid coupling capacitor on the 6V6, labeled "10.10" on the schematic.

- Look over the chassis for any other obvious burnt parts, shorts or broken leads and make repairs. Be very careful that repairs are correct, no shorts or errors. Check the resistance of the major B+ circuit to ground, looking for at least 5k or better resistance. Do this across the new 22mf capacitor closest to the rectifier filament connection. If this value is low there is a fault which must be found and repaired or too much current will flow, damaging the power transformer and the rectifier. The meter will show the capacitor(s) charging.

- The next step is to power the radio, I advise this because replacing the capacitors and checking or replacing the resistors all at once for an inexperienced technician can lead to a radio that does not work. Followed by the plea post of what happened?

- Replace the rectifier and power the radio. If the radio comes to life look for other issues, if it does not sound good and probably won't. If the radio does not play at all, try to troubleshoot the reason. Radios designed in stages and determining where the fault lies is a stage by stage process. Make the repair to get it to work...

- Now replace the paper capacitors two at a time and try the radio. If the radio fails the area of failure will be apparent. Check and replace any resistors the get disconnected at one end during the capacitor replacement. Use a bright colored marker to indicate good parts.

- The dial cord may be the wrong diameter or improperly strung. Sam's may have a dial cord stringing diagram for this model. The relationship of the tuner drum and the cursor is such that it has no spring at one end, but a spring at the far end.

- Some radios have the frame of the tuning capacitor at AVC potential, insulated. Be sure that if the tuner is floating that it is so.

- The Nostalgia Air reproduction of the schematic is poor, it may be poor in Riders but usually it is a poor scan that is the problem.

- It appears that this model FADA is not in Beitmans. '40 or '41..

GL

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Thu Aug 31, 2017 3:48 pm

Thanks For all of the information of what to look out for, This radio is NOT covered in Sams as this radio was before Sam's started publishing (they started publishing in 1946 and my radio is from 1940) and the original capacitor (which was a chassis mounted cardboard tube capacitor) is no longer present on the chassis and all that's on the radio now is 4 16 MFD 250 Volt cardboard tube dry electrolytic capacitors that are axial leaded mounted under the chassis, I was planning on trying to get a 16/16 MFD at 500 Volts electrolytic capacitor can from Antique Electronic Supply (AES) to mount ontop of the chassis in the capacitor retaining ring that was from the original capacitor can that was once there.
As for the tuning goes I was actually able to fix that, I don't know what I did but I did get it to go all the way across back and forth again.
And then the previous repair job left one of the electrolytic capacitor's positive leads too long and unsoldered inside the chassis and it rubbed against the one dogbone resistor in the power supply circuit and shorted out and left a small burn mark on the dogbone resistor. So I may need to figure out what the value of that dogbone resistor is and replace it with a modern wirewound resistor.
As for the power cord, the original power cord was cut off a few inches from the chassis because it was dry-rotted which I do have some extra cords laying around I could wire up to it temporarily to try and power it up with, but like I said with the way the power supply filter caps are currently wired up in this radio right now I don't think I'd want to risk powering this radio up right now until I can figure out what's going on with the filter capacitor's wiring and get that straightened out.
And it appears that since there's not much service information on this model out there (since Sam's and Beitman's didn't cover this model and the only information out there for this is a poorly drawn/copied schematics from Rider's and that's it) this radio is going to be a little bit of a trick to get up and running again seeing as it was mangled pretty badly by a really poor amateur repair job in its previous life.

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by Chas on Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:09 pm

https://hayseedhamfest.com/

"Dogbone" resistors are almost always carbon resistors. Since this is a later radio, the resistor would have the BED paint code, body, end, dot and other end the tolerance. If there is no silver or gold end paint then the resistor is 20%, silver 10% and gold 5%. BED resistors are not value sequenced like modern resistors they are decimal steps to the values. When replacing, use the closest modern value bearing in mind the tolerance of the BED resistor. This same standard value change has also occurred to capacitors more or less...

Most component values in a consumer radio are at 20% tolerance unless specified by a schematic notation.

Having a full set of Riders, Beitman and the first 600 or so Sam's folders is very helpful if one has a number of radios and/or plans on repeated repairs. I'm not a TV collector, so I let go of all my Riders huge TV manuals. Nice that they are online but some did not reproduce well. Rider had the cajole many manufacturers for schematics and did not redraw the but photoengraved, so schematics are often "dirty". Sam's actually purchased the equipment and disassembled when the manufacture was not forth coming. The indexing scheme is far better than Riders, yet Riders better still than Gernsbach, a disaster of a schematic manual, I have volumes 1 through 4.

GL

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Re: Need help working on restoring a Fada Model 176

Post by CaptainClock on Thu Aug 31, 2017 4:29 pm

Well This Radio isn't that much later, as its from 1940 which is still relatively early for radios, which when I think of later radios I think of 1950s or 1960s late tube equipment bordering on early transistor equipment. I actually have a 1931 U.S. Television and Radio Company 'U.S. Gloritone' Cathedral Radio that was Made in Marion, Indiana which is about 2 hours south of me, and that radio DID have some really early components in it! Shocked Anyways I do have most of the earliest Sam's Photofacts from the late 1940s going all the way up to the late 1950s I even have some Television manuals from them in my folders, but mostly radio servicers, but like I said the Fada Model 176 radio wasn't covered by Sam's because it was too early of a model for them to cover in their manuals since they only started their publications in 1946 which was 6 years after the 176 was introduced and was already replaced by much newer models since then.
Anyways like I said seeing as this model didn't get much coverage in any of the service manual manufacturers out there at the time, this radio will be kind of tricky to troubleshoot and get up and running again seeing as this radio wasn't serviced properly to begin with.

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