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Post by radiowizard on Wed Mar 18, 2009 10:14 pm

Wonder how many of you here have heard of this dangerous legislation? No matter what the unions say, in my not-so-humble opinion, it is nothing more than a blatant power and money grab. Private sector union membership has dropped in recent years, and the unions consequently lost money.I've read both sides of this; and am a union member. Unions helped get BO in, and now they want payback in the form of the EFCA.
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Post by panchro-press on Thu Mar 19, 2009 2:37 am

As an IWW member, I fully support the EFCA. The corporations have had their way for far too long. It's about time to bust union busting!
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Post by Timaaay! on Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:35 am

As a 26 year union member, I cannot express anything but contempt for EFCA. It is deeply disturbing that some would attempt to add yet another hardship to America's workers by seeking to deprive them of the right to a free, fair and private vote. The proposed card check legislation is unfair to millions of workers, will disrupt collective bargaining agreements already in place and will be responsible, according to independent research, for millions of lost jobs.
The right to a free and secret vote is what makes this country great. Under the existing law today, workers have a chance to vote for or against unionization in a private-ballot election that is federally supervised. Under Card Check, if more than 50% of workers at a facility sign a card, the government would have to certify the union, and a private ballot election would be PROHIBITED--even if workers want one. By forcing workers to sign a card in public, instead of vote in private, Card Check opens the door to intimidation and coercion.
I'm pro union, but to FORCE someone to vote in front of union reps and their fellow workers doesn't seem very fair or very American to me.
Am I missing something here? Can someone explain to me why a secret ballot is unfair? It's worked for elections in ALL real democracies and we've all seen what happens in other lands where your ballot is not secret. Just my opinion, but let's go with the real will of the people, not a system that forces people, through intimidation and fear of reprisals from co-workers.
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Post by panchro-press on Thu Mar 19, 2009 9:53 am

The issue of a secret ballot is a smoke screen. How can there be a secret ballot when the steps which lead to one get workers fired?
Card check permits workers to escape management's meddling in their right to organize.
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Post by Timaaay! on Thu Mar 19, 2009 3:12 pm

I don't quite understand. If a workers want a union, they meet with union reps., and usually come back to a meeting and vote. Weather that vote is handed in secretly or not would have no effect on workers getting fired.
I see card check as the smoke screen- there is no doubt, whatsoever that intimidation and coercion would be a large factor. It's really water under the bridge as this bill has no chance of passing anyway. In surveys, workers oppose it by 75% (union workers by over 65%) and everyone on the Sunday talk shows has said it won't pass. Several unions have also asked it's members send letters to congress asking to not pass it.
Maybe I'm missing something here (wouldn't be the first time) but I see much, much more room for fraud and intimidation without a secret ballot than with it. Maybe I just don't get it and I'm not saying I'm right.
In addition to that, independent research shows that while union membership will rise, this will make national unemployment rise by 3.5% in the first two years alone.
Believe me, I am not anti-union in any way, shape or form, but I believe in the American, democratic process of secret ballots to let people be free to vote what is in their hearts without worry.


Last edited by Timaaay! on Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:07 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Post by panchro-press on Thu Mar 19, 2009 4:49 pm

The simple act of meeting with a union organizer can get people fired. That's intimidation. The secret ballot is not an issue unless one can vote.
I don't know what passes for not being anti-union; but citing vapid research stating a co-relation between union membership and unemployment would lead one to suspect otherwise.
Voice votes are used in the Congress of the United States. The seat of American Democracy. Intimidation?

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Post by radiowizard on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:05 pm

If they meet on company property and time, isn't that interfering with production/work? Besides, why do people get a "thrill up their leg" about collectivism? Which is what unionism is. A real free choice is to let each INDIVIDUAL decide for themselves to join or abstain. Let both the company and union present their cases. What we have is forced unionism.You are all in it whether you want it or not. I hear crap like "if you don't like the union, go work somewhere where there isn't one." There's logic for you. Give people a REAL choice. And unions waste dues on stuff I wouldn't pay 5 cents for...like the recent AFL-CIO deal at Hotel Fountainbleu in Florida...I'm sure THAT came from dues money.
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Post by Uffda on Thu Mar 19, 2009 5:52 pm

Members of Congress are our representatives. In effect each is a union of their constituents. The citizens who choose that union, vote by secret ballot.

To equate a personally vulnerable, rank-and-file individual with the most powerful political leaders in the country is a dis-ingenuous analogy. The latter are elected, expected and paid to stand firm against intimidation or thuggery.

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Post by Timaaay! on Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:45 pm

panchro-press wrote:The simple act of meeting with a union organizer can get people fired. That's intimidation.

I understand and agree with your assessment in this quote. What I'm not understanding is this: Weather you vote by secret ballot or by verbal call, what is the difference? If simply meeting with union organizers can get you the boot, wouldn't you have to meet with them in order to vote verbally as well? So, as long as you risk your job either way, what possible advantage is there to not submitting a secret ballot? One must understand that I am a product of the NY City School System and, at times, find some basic concepts hard to grasp- and this one of them. I'm not being a wise guy here, I honestly don't get it. (Just like why I'm getting distorted audio from the darn Radiola on my bench.) But I'm open to suggestions/explanations. (for either
Very Happy )


Last edited by Timaaay! on Thu Mar 19, 2009 6:48 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : spelling error)
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Post by sprman on Thu Mar 19, 2009 7:58 pm

As a former member of UAW.UFCWi dont see why the bill is needed.If workers want a union let them vote .This bill stinks.Both the workers and company should have a chance .Anything less is worthless B.S. I believe in freedom of choise.Sprman : )

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Post by Uffda on Thu Mar 19, 2009 8:50 pm

Timaaay, a non-secret ballot does not have to be verbal. They may just require that you sign your name. Either way your choice is known.

By the way, I have been a union member for thirty years. At my prior job, I was the Chief Steward and negotiated the initial contract for my
union.

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Post by terry h on Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:09 am

The secret ballot should never be compromised far as I'm concerned. It is part of our country's soul.

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