AirKing 4602

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:17 pm

I was able to locate a better set of schematics for this radio. (hopefuly) They should be here next week.
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by willy3486 on Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:50 pm

frank1956 wrote:willy,
I have tried different tubes. I checked the ones that were already in the radio and then I obtained some NOS tubes and swap them out.

Just a question I was sitting here trying different things with this radio with no luck, so I decided to try tuning the oscillator. Turned on my signal generator per the schematic and let it warm up for about 30 mins or so, then turn on the radio and laid the leads across the radio I could not get any signal, tone or anything to come through the speakers. I wanted to make sure nothing was wrong with the signal generator and tried in on a working radio and it was fine. Is this something of interested Question Question

Too much going on here so I forgot to post. Anyone who takes care of a elderly family member can relate to having a lot going on. Anyway here is what I do to test one. I have a older signal generator from the 60s maybe. It has tubes. I made my own leads for it. The signal injector lead has a cap in it so no direct connection, the signal goes through the cap. I plug it into my sencore powerrite isolation transformer and the radio I am working on is also plugged into it. . I have a hallicrafters in my work area I turn on that works great so then I adjust the generator until I hear the IF 450-470 signal on the hallicrafters. I usually clip the signal wire to the antenna of the hallicrafters.

So now I know it is at the IF frequency. Then I clip the ground of the generator to the chassis. This is usually a ground for the radio. So now I have the lead with the signal and clip it to the input of the IF transformer closest to the speaker in the diagram. If no sound is heard the issue will be from that transformer to the speaker. If I hear a signal there it is working I then clip it to the IF transformer next in line, usually the closest to the tuner. If no sound is made the issue is between the two transformers. If I hear a sound out then the issue is between the antenna and the IF transformer I last tested.

Thats usually how I track it down. I am not with it the best today so if I told anything wrong someone point it out. I Think this radio is well worth fixing but there is something we have overlooked. I just don't know what it is.

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by Wildcat445 on Sat Feb 20, 2016 12:54 pm

I don't believe anybody has mentioned this. I don't see anything on the chassis to confirm it, so here goes...........

Is there a switch on the rear apron of the chassis and perhaps an RCA jack? Could someone have hacked a phono input on this chassis? If so, maybe it is set on "phono" instead of radio?

I'm grabbing at straws. Rolling Eyes

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:07 pm

WC,
I do not see any switch/Jack any where on the chassis. But here is a 100% better schematics we can work with.


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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by willy3486 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 5:43 pm

Looking at your diagram On tube number 3 the 12sk7 tube look at the diagram above.Look at the IF transformer between it and the 12sa7. It has a wire from the tranfomer at the top of the diagram that goes to "G" that I think is pin 4 on the tube. Take your signal generator and set it to 455KC. To test it clip the lead to a radio that works and fine tune it until the signal is the strongest. Once you have the signal generator peaked at 455 connect the lead from the generator to the "g" on tube 12sk7 and the ground of the generator to the ground of the radio. If the section is working fine then you should be able to hear it at the speaker and be able to adjust the volume control to raise and lower it.

If this works fine move the main lead from the generator to the "P" of tube 12sa7. Leave the ground where it is. When you do these two signal insertions to the radio do you hear the generator wave? If so from there to the speaker is fine. If not the trouble is in those IF sections to the speaker.

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by Dr. Radio on Mon Feb 22, 2016 9:53 pm

Frank,

I sincerely hope you are using your isolation transformer to power this radio while doing your work/testing. Per the schematic, one side of the in coming power line is directly connected to the chassis.
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by willy3486 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 10:58 pm

Dr. Radio wrote:Frank,

I sincerely hope you are using your isolation transformer to power this radio while doing your work/testing. Per the schematic, one side of the in coming power line is directly connected to the chassis.

I second this. I use one on anything I am working on.

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Mon Feb 22, 2016 11:39 pm

Thanks for the safety tip!!! I have ben using it since day one cheers
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 9:51 am

willy3486 wrote:Looking at your diagram On tube number 3 the 12sk7 tube look at the diagram above.Look at the IF transformer between it and the 12sa7. It has a wire from the tranfomer at the top of the diagram that goes to "G" that I think is pin 4 on the tube.  Take your signal generator and set it to 455KC. To test it clip the lead to a radio that works and fine tune it until the signal is the strongest. Once you have the signal generator peaked at 455 connect the lead from the generator to the "g" on tube 12sk7 and the ground of the generator to the ground of the radio. If the section is working fine then you should be able to hear it at the speaker and be able to adjust the volume control to raise and lower it.  

If this works fine move the main lead from the generator to the "P" of tube 12sa7. Leave the ground where it is. When you do these two signal insertions to the radio do you hear the generator wave? If so from there to the speaker is fine. If not the trouble is in those IF sections to the speaker.  

willy,
Per your instruction a tone was heard through 12sk7 pin 4 very loud and was adjustable with the volume control. A tone was also heard on 12sa7 pin 3, but was not as loud it also was adjustable with the volume control.

I am still new to this signal generator and how to read the dial on the scale, I did adjusted it using a working radio to what I though was 455kc. I left it there to use on the non working radio and as stated above was my results. But if I turned the signal generator dial clockwise the signal from 12sa7 pin 3 increase in strength??? Is this common or not set to the right frequency?? The only reason I bring this up now is because of the results I got.
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 11:36 am

All,
Now that I can take some good reading I did the voltage reading and the results are listed below.

12SK7 #1 pin 2 (14.2) pin 4 (0.2) pin 6 (63.7) pin 7 (28.3) pin 8 (63.4)
12SA7 pin 2 (28.3) pin 3 (63.4) pin 4 (63.6) pin 5 (-5.5) pin 7 (42.6) pin 8 (18.5)
12SK7 #3 pin 2 (42.7) pin 4 (no reading) pin 6 (63.5) pin 7 (56.5) pin 8 (24.3)
12SQ7 pin 2 (-eight) pin 4 (-5) pin 5 (-5) pin 6 (44.2) pin 7 (14.2)
35L6 pin 2 (98) pin 3 (131.6) pin 4 (63.6) pin 7 (56.4) pin 8 (4.2)
35Z5 pin 2 (131) pin 3 (127.6) pin 5 (125.6) pin 6 per schematic 117, not connected on radio pin 7 (98.1)
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by willy3486 on Tue Feb 23, 2016 4:40 pm

frank1956 wrote:
willy,
Per your instruction a tone was heard through 12sk7 pin 4 very loud and was adjustable with the volume control. A tone was also heard on 12sa7 pin 3, but was not as loud it also was adjustable with the volume control.

I am still new to this signal generator and how to read the dial on the scale, I did adjusted it using a working radio to what I though was 455kc. I left it there to use on the non working radio and as stated above was my results. But if I turned the signal generator dial clockwise the signal from 12sa7 pin 3 increase in strength??? Is this common or not set to the right frequency?? The only reason I bring this up now is because of the results I got.

So putting the correct 455 khz on the 12sk7 input I stated the volume is working correctly. When putting it on the input wire which is off the 12sa7 the volume is less than it was but if I understand correctly if you turn the signal generator the volume goes up? If this is the case I am wondering if that IF transformer needs to be tuned in with the generator on the input. On my signal generator the output is louder than any stations I can pull in.

Before you try what I suggest if wildcat and others could chime in here is what I am thinking If you have a signal tracer put it on the pin 3 of the 12sa7 that goes to the input of the IF transformer. See if you can tune in a station. If you hear a station on the tracer it probably is the IF that may need adjustment.

The other thing I am thinking is to get the generator back on the 455khz. Then clip the lead back to pin 3 of the 12sa7 tube that has a wire going to the input of the IF transformer. IF you hear a sound somewhat if you adjust the IF transformer screw it will go up or down. adjust it slightly to see which direction makes it go louder.

Does this sound like something he should do?


On almost all the radios I do I use mainly a tracer and generator. I do use a meter but its on rare occasion. I can do most of what I can do with the tracer and generator.

So folks should he input a signal to the IF then try to adjust?

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 4:32 pm

I might be grabbing at straws here, but I thought I would put this out and get lucky!!! I was looking at the schematic that I got the other day and was double checking all cap/res and notice something different about the schematics in relation to the radio, again just throwing this out. I don't know who if anyone messed with this radio prior to me getting it. So here goes if you look at the 35Z5 tube in the attached photo of the under bottom of the chassis that I took and compare it with the attached schematic showing the under bottom of the chassis, you will notice if I am looking at it correctly that the power cord in the photo I took goes to pin 2 along with the .05 capacitor, but in the schematics the same cord and capacitor look to go to pin 6 of the same tube. I can see it does not match of with the wiring diagram of the schematics that I posted earlier





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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by willy3486 on Thu Feb 25, 2016 5:55 pm

I am thinking the wiring is probably is right. Remember that underneath the chassis pin 2 is on the right I think and pin 2 would be on the left on the top. Look at the diagram you have. It looks like a resistor with red on it is also on that pin. then that resistor looks to be on the next pin what may be 3. then pin three has another resistor 33 ohms that goes elsewhere. That looks as how it is wired. Also if the wiring was off on the filiment then the radio would not light up as the filiments are all in series.

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Mon Feb 29, 2016 5:57 pm

frank1956 wrote:All,
Now that I can take some good reading I did the voltage reading and the results are listed below.

12SK7 #1 pin 2 (14.2) pin 4 (0.2) pin 6 (63.7) pin 7 (28.3) pin 8 (63.4)
12SA7 pin 2 (28.3) pin 3 (63.4) pin 4 (63.6) pin 5 (-5.5) pin 7 (42.6) pin 8 (18.5)
12SK7 #3 pin 2 (42.7) pin 4 (no reading) pin 6 (63.5) pin 7 (56.5) pin 8 (24.3)
12SQ7 pin 2 (-eight) pin 4 (-5) pin 5 (-5) pin 6 (44.2) pin 7 (14.2)
35L6 pin 2 (98) pin 3 (131.6) pin 4 (63.6) pin 7 (56.4) pin 8 (4.2)
35Z5 pin 2 (131) pin 3 (127.6) pin 5 (125.6) pin 6 per schematic 117, not connected on radio pin 7 (98.1)

I am at a lost. I have gone over from top to bottom checking all capacitors/resistors to insure the correct reading per the schematics. The only thing I found out of place was a 2 meg resistor which I replaced. I not sure if any one saw the post I made on the voltage reading, they kinda look out of place on some of the reading???
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by Dr. Radio on Tue Mar 08, 2016 8:44 pm

Frank,

I feel for ya...I'm about *this* close to offering you to ship the chassis to me and I'll review it pro bono. Problem is, I'm neck deep in more pressing projects, and I'm guessing you wouldn't want to pay shipping both ways....
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:26 am

Dr Radio,
Thanks for the offer. If you get caught up and you are still up for it let me know. Again thanks.
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:18 am

I guess we are at a dead end on this radio. I know I am, my only hope of possibly getting to work was an TV/Radio shop, just found out they don't mess with vintage radio anymore Mad. Thanks for all the help. I do know one thing I am a little smarter since I hooked up with this site.
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by 75X11 on Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:41 am

One thing you can do that will benefit you and may help with this problem radio in the future. If you have a known good vintage radio with a working schematic and operating voltage, You might go through it and practice with the measurements and applying signals to it and become familiar with it to the degree that you will be able to know and observe the problems and see where they can start and how. I'm sure you are close to having that radio up.
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by Wildcat445 on Mon Mar 21, 2016 12:04 pm

Frank, when I get home in a couple weeks, I'll contact you about sending that radio to me. I'll be happy to see if there is something I can do to help. I was fortunate that I had a couple of guys who bailed me out when I was getting started. I would like to pay that forward if it would be an accommodation to you.

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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by frank1956 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:18 pm

Thanks WC!!
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Re: AirKing 4602

Post by Wildcat445 on Tue Mar 22, 2016 4:50 pm

Great! It's settled, then. As soon as I get back home and get situated a bit, we'll get together and get 'er done! I'm interested in finding out what ails this radio. It should work........

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Re: AirKing 4602

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