My new project

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My new project

Post by frank1956 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:03 am

Is this Crosley model 58TK I picked up at one of my auction last weekend for $6.00. It needs some cosmetic work on the outside and definitely some new capacitors. I have attached some pictures as well as the schematic. As I was getting my list together of what I needed to order I  did notice that one of the capacitor's was not listed on the schematic. The one in the radio is a .08 @ 200 volts it is the big light blue one in the third picture. I looked the schematic up and down and do not see a listing for a .08 cap. If I am not mistaking that would be item #22 and should be a .1 @ 600 volts??

Does anyone have any take on how to proceed with the cosmetic work, this is new to me just like the restoration is semi new now!!






http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/494/M0003494.pdf
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Re: My new project

Post by Bill Cahill on Wed Oct 22, 2014 10:40 am

Somebody put in an incorrect replacement part. Looks like it should be .1 600 volts.

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Re: My new project

Post by willy3486 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 2:53 pm

A lot of folks use auto body repair fiberglass to fix them. I have super glued cracks the go with a epoxy putty mix on the inside of the case to help hold it. But if pieces are mixing usually the auto body stuff then paint. Do a search on bakelite case repair and you should see some instructions out there. Some of them look really good.

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Re: My new project

Post by 75X11 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 5:12 pm

For the cracks, regular super glue ought to bond initially, then for the surface imperfections, I have used super glue gel to fill in the outer surfaces. One trick to get a flat surface on the crack fills is to take a piece of glossy tape like scotch, and stick a piece to another so you can get a glossy center with sticky ends, sort of like a bandaid with a glossy face where the gauze would be. put a bit of the gel over the crack and put the tape down over the glued area so the glossy area contacts the crack. Put a bit of car wax on the glossy part if it sticks to the glue. It makes a flatter and fuller repair.
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Re: My new project

Post by Resistance is Futile on Wed Oct 22, 2014 6:33 pm

You could also use sandwich baggies for smoothness, in fact I use baggies to mix 2 part epoxies as it peels off afterwards when dry.
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Re: My new project

Post by Ragwire on Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:05 pm

If you fix the crack as suggested and it doesn't show much, you might consider wood stain to renew the bakelite. Rub in a very small amount...very small. Let it dry all night and buff it with a dry rag, then wax. It's a good alternative to painting brown bakelite and looks nearly new.
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Re: My new project

Post by 75X11 on Wed Oct 22, 2014 11:09 pm

One other thing on that line, they make permanent marker pens in at least 3 different stain colors for touch ups.

http://www.amazon.com/Assorted-Furniture-Repair-Markers-Scratch/dp/B001U0UOO6/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1414030209&sr=8-1&keywords=stain+marker
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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Thu Oct 23, 2014 11:48 am

Thanks for the advice all on the cosmetic aspect. Hopefully the main parts I need will be in today, so I can start on the inside.

Frank
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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:19 pm

Part finally came in. Crosley 58TK has been recapped, but have no sound what so ever, no hum, no static nothing. I tried the hot solder to the middle terminal of the volume control and nothing. I took my voltage reading AC only and they are as follows. Any suggestion, I believe I know the answer (bad power supply??) Schematic is attached in the first post of this thread.

I have gone back and looked at the schematic's again. The parts list calls for part # 22 for a .1 mfd cap @ 600 v, there was a .08 mfd in the radio and the schematics itself call for a .08 mfd. I went by the parts list and put a .1 mfd @ 630 volts in, do I need to change it or leave it??

(1) 12BE6 pin 3 23 v, pin 4 8.9 v
(2) 12BA6 pin 3 35 v, pin 4 22 v
(3) 5OB5 pin 3 35 v, pin 4 87 v
(4) 35W4 pin 4 124 v
(5) 12AT6 pin 3 8 v

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Re: My new project

Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 6:47 pm

I would recommend you see what kind of voltage you have on the cathode of the rectifier. I do not have my Riders here, so I am going to have to punt. Pin 7 in memory serves. Whatever pin it is, see if you have around 120 volts DC give or take on the cathode. Pin 4 should be the plate, maybe? That should be AC voltage. Run all the voltages, compared to the schematic and let us know what is going on. If Pin 3 on the 12 BA6, 12BE6 are the plates, you have low voltage there. So that I don't guess and tell you wrong, and so I don't have to make a fool of myself, again, would you post a copy of the schematic so we can help you further? Thanks, and good luck.

WC

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Re: My new project

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:10 pm

Frank, did you get that at the Green Valley Auction?

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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:40 pm

Wildcat445 wrote:I would recommend you see what kind of voltage you have on the cathode of the rectifier.  I do not have my Riders here, so I am going to have to punt.  Pin 7 in memory serves.  Whatever pin it is, see if you have around 120 volts DC give or take on the cathode.  Pin 4 should be the plate, maybe?  That should be AC voltage.  Run all the voltages, compared to the schematic and let us know what is going on.  If Pin 3 on the 12 BA6, 12BE6 are the plates, you have low voltage there.  So that I don't guess and tell you wrong, and so I don't have to make a fool of myself, again, would you post a copy of the schematic so we can help you further?  Thanks, and good luck.

WC

WC, Schematic is attached in the first post I did on this thread, but here you go http://www.nostalgiaair.org/PagesByModel/494/M0003494.pdf
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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 7:41 pm

MEZLAW wrote:Frank, did you get that at the Green Valley Auction?


Yes sir!!
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Re: My new project

Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:10 pm

Oops. Sorry, Frank. But thanks for posting it again. Rolling Eyes

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Re: My new project

Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:16 pm

Check for DC voltage at the cathode, Pin 7 of the 35W4 rectifier. Then check for plate voltage on the 50B5. If you did not get a buzz when you put your finger on the center terminal of the volume control, there may be an issue in the power supply or the audio section. We need to isolate one stage at a time. You might also sub the speaker with one known good just to eliminate it. No or low cathode voltage at the rectifier, try a different, known good rectifier tube. B+ at the rectifier, but not at the 50B5 plate, check the wiring and condition of the filter caps and check the audio output transformer for continuity. Good luck.

WC

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Re: My new project

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 26, 2014 8:25 pm

frank1956 wrote:
MEZLAW wrote:Frank, did you get that at the Green Valley Auction?


Yes sir!!

That does it.......I'm getting my sorry butt over there!! When is the next one?

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Re: My new project

Post by Dr. Radio on Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:00 pm

Frank,

I'm a Crosley guy by heart, that was the brand that got me started into "this".

The .08 is a very common value for chassis coupling in Crosleys. The .1 will not cause your problems. As you learn more, you'll find you actually want to reduce that value and use a "Y" rated safety cap in its place to reduce shock hazard.

But first, you need to determine what is going on. As stated earlier, what are your B+ voltages?

Any wiring errors?

Tubes pins and sockets clean and tight?
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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:17 pm

MEZLAW wrote:
frank1956 wrote:


Yes sir!!

That does it.......I'm getting my sorry butt over there!!   When is the next one?

This Friday 10am
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Re: My new project

Post by Guest on Sun Oct 26, 2014 10:53 pm

I'll try to be there.

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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:13 am

Wildcat445 wrote:Check for DC voltage at the cathode, Pin 7 of the 35W4 rectifier.  Then check for plate voltage on the 50B5.  If you did not get a buzz when you put your finger on the center terminal of the volume control, there may be an issue in the power supply or the audio section.  We need to isolate one stage at a time.  You might also sub the speaker with one known good just to eliminate it.  No or low cathode voltage at the rectifier, try a different, known good rectifier tube.  B+ at the rectifier, but not at the 50B5 plate, check the wiring and condition of the filter caps and check the audio output transformer for continuity.  Good luck.

WC

WC, DC voltage below. I have found one problem, per the schematic tube 5OB5 pin 2 should have a 100 ohm resistor on it, my has nothing trying to track now what it tie into off pin 2. Other than that so far everything else looks good. Socket clean and tight, wiring looks good etc. Schematic reading are in (). I have attached some pictures of the underside of the chassis.


12BE6 pin # 1 -5, (-5.5) pin # 5 107 (85) and pin # 6 107 (85)
12BA6 pin # 5 20 (24), and pin # 6 109 (85)
5OB5 pin # 2 no connection (5.1), pin # 5 152 (110) and pin # 6 107 (85)
35W4 pin # 3 152 (83) and pin # 7 151 (118)
12AT6 pin # 7 58 (50)



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Re: My new project

Post by Dr. Radio on Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:36 am

Frank,

Your voltages are off (high) as the set isn't drawing proper current since the 50B5's cathode has no connection, thus no audio output.

You need to connect one end of the 100 ohm resistor to pin 2 of the the 50B5 output and the other end to B- (run a temporary wire to where the negatives of the electrolytics connect.
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Re: My new project

Post by Wildcat445 on Mon Oct 27, 2014 12:47 am

Doc nailed it. Good luck.


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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Mon Oct 27, 2014 10:59 am

Dr. Radio wrote:Frank,

Your voltages are off (high) as the set isn't drawing proper current since the 50B5's cathode has no connection, thus no audio output.

You need to connect one end of the 100 ohm resistor to pin 2 of the the 50B5 output and the other end to B- (run a temporary wire to where the negatives of the electrolytics connect.


Dr. Radio,
If I understand this correctly, I am to connect the 100 ohm resistor to pin 2 50B5 and the end is to go to the where the negative connectivity is for the electrolytics??? In this case all the way back to the volume control?? What do you mean when you say run a temporary wire??

Looking at the schematics it look like the 100 ohm resistor would tie into the 470 K resistor, just my observation. Definitely no expert here. Thanks

Frank
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Re: My new project

Post by Dr. Radio on Mon Oct 27, 2014 2:56 pm

Frank you are correct. One end of the 470k resistor off of the 50B5 does tie to B-, so you can tie the other end of your 100 ohm resistor to that same spot so it also "sees" B-.

The only reason I suggested running a temp. wire to the (-) connections of the electrolytics was it was quick and easy to see if the radio would then work, AND I wasn't sure how comfortable you were with finding the correct junction points/reading schematics--You have proved yourself Smile

Let us know if the radio springs to life.
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Re: My new project

Post by frank1956 on Mon Oct 27, 2014 5:20 pm

Dr. Radio, hooked it up and got sound, just a hum/buzz no static or stations. Was re-taking my voltage reading and got to the 50B5 tube pin 5 voltage started going up i.e. 60, 70 etc got almost to 90 and then started dropping fast, now I have nothing, no tubes light up, no sound nothing not sure if the 50B5 went out or not? Any idea??

I assume since these tubes are in a circuit when one goes they all go, like the old christmas tree lights??

Frank
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Re: My new project

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