BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

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BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by fixit1958 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 4:56 pm

Hi everyone,

I just finished recapping, (including the electrolytics) replacing all resistors, vibrator, all frayed wires and replaced on/off/volume/tone switch, cleaned the chassis and repainted the case on a model #986067 Delco slant back radio for my 1949 Chevrolet truck. Just powered it up yesterday and all I get from the speaker is a BEE-DEEP, BEE DEEP sound. No hum, no scratching, and of course no radio stations. I've checked all of my main voltages. All of these are spot on. I checked for crossed wires....none found. What could be causing this and how do I fix it?? Any help or advice would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Dr. Radio on Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:14 pm

Audio section working?

If you touch the "hot" side of the volume control pot, do you get a loud HUUMMMMM?

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 16, 2014 5:22 pm

You also must have the antenna rod connected.

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by fixit1958 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 6:07 pm

Connected the antenna. No change. No hummmmm from volume control.

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by jerryhawthorne on Tue Sep 16, 2014 7:03 pm

Fixit, time to post a link to the schematic. Getting sound from the speaker is promising but not getting any hum off the volume pot suggests something is wrong in the amp section. Check tubes and proper locations and wiring.
Jerry

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Wildcat445 on Tue Sep 16, 2014 10:29 pm

Do you have a mechanical or a solid state vibrator? If mechanical, is it buzzing? You need to measure voltages and see what you have. Typically, you should have in the area of 285 volts at the positive end of the first filter cap. There is normally a power resistor between the filter caps and the rest of the radio. These have been known to open. That would kill B+ and the radio. I hope you have a schematic you can work from. GM radios use an OZ4 rectifier. Check it to make sure it is good. Good luck.

WC

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by fixit1958 on Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:23 am

I have a VBX-1 vibrator by Aurora Design. I have a schematic and have measured voltages on all major voltage terminals and all are spot on. The voltage shows 275 VAC at the positive end of the first cap. I have replaced the 0Z4 rectifier in the radio with another one I have and I tried a solid state 0Z4 rectifier and am still getting the same BEE DEEP noise from the speaker. If I remove the 0Z4 rectifier the speaker goes to a steady buzz.

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:10 am

If you are getting AC on the positive end of the first filter, you have a major problem. That will wreck the electrolytic, if it hasn't already.
If you have a solid state vibrator in it, that may be part of your problem. I tried using a brand new one in a '48 Ford a few years back. Radio made a loud noise, and, vibrator got hot. I ended up repairing the old vibrator.

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Wildcat445 on Thu Sep 18, 2014 9:26 pm

All "voltages on all major voltage terminals" cannot be "spot on" and you still have a broken radio.  Something, somewhere VITAL is missing.  Which terminals do you consider a "major terminal?"  Specifics would allow us to better help you.  Plate, screen, and grid voltage would all help.  Having 275 volts AC at the positive end of the first filter cap, as Bill rightly pointed out, is a "major" problem.  There should be DC at that cap, since it is after the rectifier.  If you misspoke and, in fact, have 275 volts DC then the rectifier is not the problem, or you would have no DC, hence no B+.  I am not familiar with a VBX-1 vibrator.  I take it that this is a solid state vibrator.  If you have a steady buzz from the speaker with the rectifier removed, that makes me tend to suspect a miswire somewhere perhaps, or a short from heater to plate in an audio tube.  I would start at the cathode of the recitifier and check EVERY voltage on every element in that set until I found where the break is.  Did you check the power resistor?  Something like 1500 ohms at 10 watts?  I have seen several of those open, although that kills B+ past the resistor.  Bill's comment about solid state vibrators is also something to seriously consider.  I have had problems with those myself.  And you might run all the tubes thru a good tube checker to check for shorts, just for good measure.  And if you would be good enough to post the model number of the GM radio you are working on, that would be great.  Good luck.

Edit. I missed the model number. Sorry. I'm old and my eyes and brain are wearing out at the same time! Rolling Eyes

WC

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by fixit1958 on Thu Sep 18, 2014 11:56 pm

WC,

I am going to start re-checking all my voltages again tomorrow. Checked all the tubes today on a Lafayette tube tester and all tested OK. I did misspeak. Sorry. I did get 275 VDC at the positive end of the first filter cap. The VBX-1 vibrator is a microprocessor unit that goes into down mode should there be a short in the system. According to Aurora Design, this down mode helps to save itself as well as the transformer,rectifier,and filters.
The VBX-1 vibrator features a deadband control, softstart, delayed start, short circuit protection and over power protection. At least that is what they claim.

I got you. I too am old and can't see without glasses and forget that I can't remember everything at once. I am also heading to the doctor tomorrow for a right ear problem. Just had back surgery on May 19th and right knee surgery a year ago. They call these the golden years, but my take on it is "Old age is not for sissies!"  I would very much appreciate any assistance you can give me, as I am sure I missed something!

Tim

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Wildcat445 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:16 am

From what you described, that vibrator sounds like a pretty fancy device to be rattling around in the instrument panel of a '49 Chevy truck. It and the rectifier are not the problem since you have 275 volts DC at the filter cap. I would highly recommend that you substitute, at least for testing, the audio tubes. Just in case there is a short that a tube checker cannot identify. If the voltages all check out, I would get out your signal generator and start injecting a signal into the various stages of the radio to detect where the signal is being interrupted. Also check your work against the diagram in case of a miswire. Good luck.

My wife says she worked all her life so she could retire and have time to go to the doctor. We probably complain too much, and should be grateful we are still on the top side of the grass!


WC

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Bill Cahill on Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:54 pm

I am 63, and, also highly questioning the golden years. My take on it is this ain't no place for sissies, so, let me outa here!!!!!

Yeh, I complain too much, but, Arthur has kept me company too long.
Could also be some type of an intermittent. Try disconnecting the speaker, and, temporarily connacting another one. Not the field coil. The low voltage voice coil. I occasionally see those get intermittent braid connections to the voice coil. Could be that.

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by 75X11 on Fri Sep 19, 2014 8:31 pm

Out of curiosity, how frequently does it make the bee deep sound? That radio and truck will be a great combination! I helped in the rebuild of a radio for a '49 Chevrolet my platoon sergeant had.
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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by fixit1958 on Sat Sep 20, 2014 11:41 am

75X11,

The BEE DEEP sound from the speaker is at even regular intervals, just like a clock ticking.
Checked the voltages at 6SQ7 yesterday and this is what I am getting:

Pin#2 negative - 1.02 VDC
Pin#4 negative - 1.4 VDC
Pin#5 negative - 1.6 VDC
Pin#6 +100 VDC which jumps back and forth from +100 VDC to 150 VDC with the BEE DEEP sound from the speaker.

Don't know if this pinpoints anything but those were the results. I am going to check all voltages on every pin in the next few days.

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Ragwire on Sat Sep 20, 2014 12:16 pm

Wildcat445 wrote:All "voltages on all major voltage terminals" cannot be "spot on" and you still have a broken radio.
WC
I (very) respectfully disagree.
An open (or very high ESR) bypass or coupling capacitor somewhere will not usually affect DC voltage readings.
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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by 75X11 on Sat Sep 20, 2014 1:29 pm

The reason I asked about the frequency of the sound is because you mentioned the protective features of your solid state vibrator. I wonder if it is shutting down and restarting. That wouldn't be the problem in and of itself, but an indicator of what it senses as a short or near short or other protected potential.
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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:16 am

What's an open esr capacitor?? Never heard of one...
See if you are getting the voltage changes at the main filter. I also, still wonder if the voice coil could be causing all this trouble....

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Ragwire on Sun Sep 21, 2014 9:36 am

Bill Cahill wrote:What's an open esr capacitor?? Never heard of one...
See if you are getting the voltage changes at the main filter. I also, still wonder if the voice coil could be causing all this trouble....
Bill, I wrote "open (or very high ESR) capacitor." Meaning that a capacitor that has deteriorated to a very high equivalent series resistance acts nearly open. Any component failure--capacitor, resistor, etc. that is only in the signal path and affects only the passage of the radio or audio signal can cause a failure of the radio without being detectable by measuring DC voltages on the tube terminals. WC wrote that one cannot have all major voltage measurement spot on and still have a broken radio, and that is generally the case, but not always. That's all I meant.
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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:54 am

Bill, I'm glad you asked about "ESR". I did not know what that meant, either! Very Happy

Ragwire, I do not know of a voltage that passes thru a radio that cannot be measured. And any voltage, no matter how small or large, that is supposed to be there, but is not, may cause the radio to be dead. A radio is merely a device that directs electrical voltage in such a manner to produce a sound that we can understand. The thrust of my comments to the OP was that somewhere, somehow, there was a voltage missing that is necessary for this radio to work. If you would be good enough to share with us a situation where a voltage is missing, great or small, and the radio still work properly, I would be interested in hearing that. And thank you.

WC

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by fixit1958 on Sun Sep 21, 2014 2:44 pm

I have done all I can do with the equipment I have available. Have decided to send this radio to a good friend of mine who has been a radio and television technician for over 32 years. He has ALL the proper equipment to find the problem and align the radio back where it needs to be. I thank ALL who participated in my predicament and problems with this radio.

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by 75X11 on Sun Sep 21, 2014 3:14 pm

Please let us know how things turn out.
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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Ragwire on Sun Sep 21, 2014 8:14 pm

Let's compress the thread to what I was responding to and see if it makes more sense?
fixit1958 wrote:...I've checked all of my main voltages. All of these are spot on. I checked for crossed wires....none found. What could be causing this and how do I fix it?? Any help or advice would be GREATLY APPRECIATED!!
Wildcat445 wrote:All "voltages on all major voltage terminals" cannot be "spot on" and you still have a broken radio.  Something, somewhere VITAL is missing.  Which terminals do you consider a "major terminal?"...
Ragwire wrote:I (very) respectfully disagree.
An open (or very high ESR) bypass or coupling capacitor somewhere will not usually affect DC voltage readings.

I don't think this following comment/question is quite on track with what I was trying to get across to the OP:
Wildcat445 wrote:...If you would be good enough to share with us a situation where a voltage is missing, great or small, and the radio still work properly, I would be interested in hearing that.  And thank you.

WC
Somewhere I was misunderstood to say that a missing voltage was OK? Was I to assume that the OP measured all DC, audio and RF/IF voltages and currents and they were all spot on? And that the frequencies were also correct and the tuning and alignment correct, and the speaker magnet was good (which would, technically affect speaker current to some degree)?
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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Sep 21, 2014 11:10 pm

Sometimes misunderstandings occur via electronic communication. Thank you for your interest and your input.

WC

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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

Post by Ragwire on Mon Sep 22, 2014 12:25 am

That's very true. There is no intonement on a keyboard.
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Re: BEE DEEP - BEE DEEP sound coming from speaker.

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