Stimulus Package

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Post by terry h on Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:15 pm

Public figures are open to international scrutiny too.
Puten, Pres. of Russia about the money slinging. To paraphrase; He more or less said we tried it, and it didn't work. It ruined our economy.
I bet you didn't see THAT on the nightly news Gang.

More power to Rick Santelli, reporter for C NBC on the floor of the Chicago Board Of Trade. He really let go with his take on things. It may have cost him his job, but the crowd was with him.

Sorry about the spelling mistakes.

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Post by exray on Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:19 pm

I think you did an excellent job of spelling, terry. I think its Putin but I'd really have to go look it up since I don't speak Russian. I'm still struggling with that little Iranian guy's name.
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Post by Chimes on Sat Feb 21, 2009 12:39 am

exray wrote:I think you did an excellent job of spelling, terry. I think its Putin but I'd really have to go look it up since I don't speak Russian. I'm still struggling with that little Iranian guy's name.

You mean Mahmoud Iwannajihad?

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Post by exray on Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:14 am

Yeah, that sounds like the guy!
Somewhere in my archives I've got a great audio clip by a comedian from back in the First Iraqi Invasion...

Gist was...

"My old man, he can't say his name (referring to Osama) so he jess calls him Rub-a-Dub. So ole Rub-a-dub tells his troops 'lets you and him become martyrs to bring down the Great Satan."

oh well, I guess you had to hear all of it. Smile
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Post by exray on Sat Feb 21, 2009 2:49 am

As for this Stimulus Package...I'm hearing that there was only ONE copy of this 1000-page bill that was passed around in Congress for review. I don't know if that is true but if it is then every Congressman should have abstained from voting.

We've been thru 6-8 years of having a Congress who succumbed to browbeating and we were 'sold' a CHANGE from that scenario. So far the CHANGE seems to be an exaggerated version of "my way". The details of the package are not available to this day either to the Congressmen or to the public - yet the largest expenditure (debt) ever put on the books of this country has slipped thru under our noses and been signed off on with little public debate. Makes Bush's little illegal wire-tapping thing seem inconsequential.

Check the Dow...we had managed to stay above 8000 for the recent months and now its tanking as a result of the lack of confidence. Sure, if you promise checks to everybody the favorability poll numbers might stay high but the market is saying nix.

I don't want a check for 300 or 600 bucks. I bought a new TV last time they did that and much of that money went to China...err, maybe thats why we are passing out 'money-for-nothing' checks???

The ram-rodding of power and catering to please the non-productive segments of society really has me worried. The promise of millions of jobs is laughable unless the intention is to hire millions of federal accountants to figure out where this $787b disappears to.
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Post by mikeinkcmo on Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:35 am

To quote some wise individual in the past, "Liars can figure, but figures don't lie."

On the local news last nite, the "party line news people" were touting the BIG dollars and Thousands of great JOBS as usual. Infrastructure Jobs was the topic and I always keep a calculater by the easy chair, just to do the math.

Keep in mind that contracts for Government construction jobs are at what is called "prevaining wage" which means "UNION RATES" of pay. The deal for Missouri wound up being $30,000 per "JOB", or about 90 days including all fringes, retirement contributions, and of course the union's cut.

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Post by Gary Tayman on Sat Feb 21, 2009 8:48 am

terry h wrote:Public figures are open to international scrutiny too.
Puten, Pres. of Russia about the money slinging. To paraphrase; He more or less said we tried it, and it didn't work. It ruined our economy.
I bet you didn't see THAT on the nightly news Gang.

More power to Rick Santelli, reporter for C NBC on the floor of the Chicago Board Of Trade. He really let go with his take on things. It may have cost him his job, but the crowd was with him.

Sorry about the spelling mistakes.

Vladimir Putin spoke in Switzerland a couple days ago, and warned the USA not to move toward socialism. He said it will stagnate the productiveness of the economy and eventually make the entire country ineffective. He suggested we look at his own country as an example of this.

I find this totally amazing for two reasons. First, look at who said it! He of all people should know, and I don't think anybody would exactly label him as a conservative. Second, it's the first time I've heard ANYBODY talk to foreigners and apologize for their own country, aside from the USA.

As for Rick Santelli, it's amazing that for once we have a reporter who has broken away from the "cheerleading squad" to speak his own mind, fully realizing that to do so he could lose his job and have his background fully investigated such that the slightest piece of dirty laundry will be vividly displayed for all to see. Remember Joe the Plumber? Remember Sarah Palin? Yet he did it, and it wouldn't surprise me one bit to see others break tradition and do it as well.

By far, the vast majority of people in that party to the left, that I shall not mention the name of for fear of reprimand, are indeed patriotic Americans who want the best for this country and the world. Their ideas are not the same as those of conservatives -- and that's WHY we have houses of Congress to begin with so both sides can be heard and debated -- but most never DREAMED that their party would be hijacked by a few, taking an extremely sharp turn toward socialism. It would be akin to the conservatives, who want less government, to destroy the Constitution and all government documents entirely and declaring the place a total free-for-all. This would be just as disastrous. We need a government, but it must have it's limitations. The US Constitution does a spectacular job of defining the purposes and limitations of government. More Americans should read it. More Government officials should follow it.
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Post by Timaaay! on Sat Feb 21, 2009 9:08 am

You're right on the money Gary. I further can not believe that The White House has attacked reporters, media outlets, and media figures that don't agree with their policies. The President and staff have several times attacked Fox News, Rush Limbaugh, Sean Hannity, and others. Yesterday they had Rick Santelli in the cross-hairs. Public humiliation of these people, in my opinion, is a tactic straight from the Hugo Chavez book "Dictators For Dummies"
Not only did Vladimir Putin caution the administration for going too far, so did Bill Clinton!
This mortgage bail-out is another slap in the face to the 94% of folks who were responsible, hard-working folks that purchased a home that was within their means.
People signed a binding, legal contract. When I sign a contract I make sure I am able to meet the requirements of the current contract and don’t count on finding some way out at a later point in time. People need to recognize that when you buy something you need to be prepared to pay for it. And if you can’t pay for it, you will lose it. That's what was in the contract that you signed. That is life.
I was raised to take care of myself, without begging others to support me. Now we are being forced to keep people in homes they never should have been allowed to buy to start with. Anyone who couldn’t afford a down payment should never have qualified for a mortgage! To follow the same logic, I the taxpayer should have received a tax rebate when homes were going up in value even though I didn’t own the home. The plan bails out the fox and leaves the chickens prisoners in their coops.

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

"I think that socialism is a great idea until you run out of other people's money"- Margaret Thatcher
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Post by panther on Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:42 pm

Wish all you want, but when greed takes power, it's all over folks.
Nothing, repeat NOTHING, that anyone can do now, is going to stop the slide down the slippery slope.
The powers that be, will be the ones to suffer from any real fix, and that is NOT going to happen.


Dan


Last edited by panther on Sat Feb 21, 2009 5:09 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Post by Doug K. on Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:42 pm

Why should I, as a responsible person that lives within my means, have to "bailout" people that clearly bought properties that they couldn't afford. I think the whole thing stinks to high heaven.
As an aside, this whole thing started on ol' Billyboy's watch when cries of discrimination came about because certain people were denied mortgages. Uh, the reason they were denied was because THEY COULDN"T AFFORD THEM, or had lousy credit to begin with... Just my $.02...

remember this?:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lr1M1T2Y314&feature=related


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Post by panther on Sat Feb 21, 2009 4:48 pm

Doug;
Unfortuneately that's the new Liberal Philosophy of life, you can't let people know they are screwed up, it might hurt their feelings.
Touchy feely crap...
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Post by Chimes on Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:09 am

Timaaay! wrote:You're right on the money Gary. I further can not believe that The White House has attacked reporters, media outlets, and media figures that don't agree with their policies.

Remember when Obama kicked three reporters off his campaign plane because they did not share his views?

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Post by Chimes on Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:11 am

exray wrote:As for this Stimulus Package...I'm hearing that there was only ONE copy of this 1000-page bill that was passed around in Congress for review. I don't know if that is true but if it is then every Congressman should have abstained from voting.

We've been thru 6-8 years of having a Congress who succumbed to browbeating and we were 'sold' a CHANGE from that scenario. So far the CHANGE seems to be an exaggerated version of "my way". The details of the package are not available to this day either to the Congressmen or to the public - yet the largest expenditure (debt) ever put on the books of this country has slipped thru under our noses and been signed off on with little public debate. Makes Bush's little illegal wire-tapping thing seem inconsequential.


So much for Hussein Obama's campaign promise of transparency in the government.

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Post by Resistance is Futile on Sun Feb 22, 2009 2:05 am

Thems that has the power makes da rules.
Only the people can change things, first it has to be from the Heart. and they have to have thier neighbors best interests at heart first and foremost. If they are determined to push thier ideals they will get nowhere. Only by example can one persuade. Nuff said
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Post by mandh on Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:32 am

We have a government that no longer represents the people who elected it, but in general representatives only interested in taking care of themselves. They consider themselves America's royals and look down on the electorate with disdain. Not enough people bother to know the issues, and when election time comes, speak with their votes. I believe that too many of our representatives have served far too long and should be voted out of office. This does not happen and the same egotistical so and so's keep on getting re-elected.

The stimulus package is a joke, and as said by others is just a bunch of pork. It will help no one, except the politicians who will be rewarded for their votes. Too many special interest groups and too much political correctness is destroying this country.

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Post by Terrible Terry on Sun Feb 22, 2009 12:51 pm

So when was it any different? History seems to show us that it's always been this way, at least in the view of the people. One difference though, is that because of the recent expansion of the communications network, minute details of events are now spread instantly through the world. Much more than ever before government officials are under intense scrutiny by the critical public. "Transparency" is more than just a campaign slogan, it's really a fait accompli brought about by the "digital revolution." I think it just seems like there is more corruption and unresponsive government because it is much more difficult for things to be kept secret and hidden; "dirty laundry" is now aired at the speed of electricity.

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Post by Timaaay! on Sun Feb 22, 2009 1:17 pm

Doug K. wrote:As an aside, this whole thing started on ol' Billyboy's watch when cries of discrimination came about because certain people were denied mortgages. Uh, the reason they were denied was because THEY COULDN"T AFFORD THEM, or had lousy credit to begin with...
Check this report from last year, Doug.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pwcI6BEzO8

or this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cMnSp4qEXNM&feature=related
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Post by panther on Sun Feb 22, 2009 3:58 pm

Timaaay;
Very interesting, but unfortuneately too late..
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Post by exray on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:05 pm

To add insult to injury I heard on the news today that the President wants to pay down at least half of the deficit in the next 4 years. (only the pre-stimulus deficit was mentioned on the news clip). Not a bad idea, but...

So does that mean pay back 787b for the stimulus AND pay back another 600-700b? Or are we just trading one debt for another? I think that means a short life for any tax cuts. There's not enough rich people to rob to pay for all this!
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Post by panther on Sun Feb 22, 2009 7:27 pm

If Senators and Congressmen/women, would spent all of their time, at attempts to solve our exsisting problems, instead of trying to pass new legislation that will line their pockets, and get re-elected, we would whip this problem in short time.
But we as collective idiots, keep re-electing the same local representatives. Our power is in Congress, and the Senate, not the Whitehouse. If we don't take back our Government, Eventually our Generals will.....
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Post by terry h on Sun Feb 22, 2009 9:48 pm

Well Fellers, Never fear. There is a plan afoot. Is your 401K melting? Does your pension have the flew? Is that what's botherin ya boys?

First the administration will take that nasty old money and restore to pre-meltdown levels, and put it where it's safe. Safe in your social security account! Algore the welder will make a Lock...Box for it.

Now shut up and eat your crackers and milk! Twisted Evil

But seriously Gang, the above has been proposed. We all know the SS money is long gone. Your retirement money would probably suffer the same fate.

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Post by RadioNut39 on Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:13 pm

IMHO, The Housing Boom and Bust was an engineered event. Here's how it worked:

First, what is the stated goal(s) of the New World Order?
Dissolution of National Boundaries- change a regions language, culture, and Money, and you HAVE dissolved a Border.

Next, redistribute the wealth. Do this by removing "citizenship" from us all by diluting the populace with non-citizens.

Next, impliment an Order from the Government Requiring the Banks to make "liar's loans", ie: No Docs, no SS# , no nothing.

Use "community development" organizations, ie; "ACORN" etc. . (It will be interesting to see if ACORN, even though it is under investigation, will be assigned to do the New Stimulus's distribution of Mortgage monies.)
THEN Blame the Banks.Were the Banks guilty? Of course, but not of the creation of this THEFT, but of GREED.

End result? You have STOLEN the American Taxpayers Money to provide Housing for Illegal Immigrants and others who are not beneath lying, cheating,and theft.Thus, producing a whole new underclass who will Vote , Protest, or Riot to keep their new-found prosperity.

Those responsible in Our Government consist of Members of Both parties.
The Real question one should ask is not which Party is responsible for these TRAITOROUS ACTS, it is Who is responsible.
This goes way beyond just a repremand or Voting them out - these are Criminals who have violated the highest Law in the land, the US Constitution, and should be dealt with harshly.

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Post by panther on Mon Feb 23, 2009 3:36 pm

Radio nut;
Exactly whom should we place this blame on ?
We know who supports ACORN, and we know who forced, Fanny Mae, to endorse bad bank loans, or rather to demand that they make these loans.
So what exactly can we as a people do to turn this around.
Like I mentioned above, IMHO it's too late to do anything.
The powers that be are the ones now in control, and you know they aren't going to cut their own throats.

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Post by Resistance is Futile on Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:11 pm

Politics and Religion don't mix, Or do they?
Think about the problems we are having in general. Abortions, Right to Die, Bank failures, Foreign business here, Floods, Hurricanes, Mildew in buildings, Extinction of Bees, Divorce and the list goes on. It maybe because we no longer follow the Biblical Principles that our Nation was founded upon. Just read these scriptures and see if it relates.

Deu 28:8 "The LORD your God will bless your work and fill your barns with grain. He will bless you in the land that he is giving you.
Deu 28:9 "If you obey the LORD your God and do everything he commands, he will make you his own people, as he has promised.
Deu 28:10 Then all the peoples on earth will see that the LORD has chosen you to be his own people, and they will be afraid of you.
Deu 28:11 The LORD will give you many children, many cattle, and abundant crops in the land that he promised your ancestors to give you.
Deu 28:12 He will send rain in season from his rich storehouse in the sky and bless all your work, so that you will lend to many nations, but you will not have to borrow from any.
Deu 28:13 The LORD your God will make you the leader among the nations and not a follower; you will always prosper and never fail if you obey faithfully all his commands that I am giving you today.
Deu 28:14 But you must never disobey them in any way, or worship and serve other gods.
Deu 28:15 "But if you disobey the LORD your God and do not faithfully keep all his commands and laws that I am giving you today, all these evil things will happen to you:
Deu 28:16 "The LORD will curse your towns and your fields.
Deu 28:17 "The LORD will curse your grain crops and the food you prepare from them.
Deu 28:18 "The LORD will curse you by giving you only a few children, poor crops, and few cattle and sheep.
Deu 28:19 "The LORD will curse everything you do.
Deu 28:20 "If you do evil and reject the LORD, he will bring on you disaster, confusion, and trouble in everything you do, until you are quickly and completely destroyed.
Deu 28:21 He will send disease after disease on you until there is not one of you left in the land that you are about to occupy.
Deu 28:22 The LORD will strike you with infectious diseases, with swelling and fever; he will send drought and scorching winds to destroy your crops. These disasters will be with you until you die.
Deu 28:23 No rain will fall, and your ground will become as hard as iron.
Deu 28:24 Instead of rain, the LORD will send down duststorms and sandstorms until you are destroyed.
Deu 28:25 "The LORD will give your enemies victory over you. You will attack them from one direction, but you will run from them in all directions, and all the people on earth will be terrified when they see what happens to you.
Deu 28:26 When you die, birds and wild animals will come and eat your bodies, and there will be no one to scare them off.
Deu 28:27 The LORD will send boils on you, as he did on the Egyptians. He will make your bodies break out with sores. You will be covered with scabs, and you will itch, but there will be no cure.
Deu 28:28 The LORD will make you lose your mind; he will strike you with blindness and confusion.
Deu 28:29 You will grope about in broad daylight like someone blind, and you will not be able to find your way. You will not prosper in anything you do. You will be constantly oppressed and robbed, and there will be no one to help you.
Deu 28:30 "You will be engaged to a young woman---but someone else will marry her. You will build a house---but never live in it. You will plant a vineyard---but never eat its grapes.
Deu 28:31 Your cattle will be butchered before your very eyes, but you will not eat any of the meat. Your donkeys will be dragged away while you look on, and they will not be given back to you. Your sheep will be given to your enemies, and there will be no one to help you.
Deu 28:32 Your sons and daughters will be given as slaves to foreigners while you look on. Every day you will strain your eyes, looking in vain for your children to return.
Deu 28:33 A foreign nation will take all the crops that you have worked so hard to grow, while you receive nothing but constant oppression and harsh treatment.
Deu 28:34 Your sufferings will make you lose your mind.
Deu 28:35 The LORD will cover your legs with incurable, painful sores; boils will cover you from head to foot.
Deu 28:36 "The LORD will take you and your king away to a foreign land, where neither you nor your ancestors ever lived before; there you will serve gods made of wood and stone.
Deu 28:37 In the countries to which the LORD will scatter you, the people will be shocked at what has happened to you; they will make fun of you and ridicule you.
Deu 28:38 "You will plant plenty of seed, but reap only a small harvest, because the locusts will eat your crops.
Deu 28:39 You will plant vineyards and take care of them, but you will not gather their grapes or drink wine from them, because worms will eat the vines.
Deu 28:40 Olive trees will grow everywhere in your land, but you will not have any olive oil, because the olives will drop off.
Deu 28:41 You will have sons and daughters, but you will lose them, because they will be taken away as prisoners of war.
Deu 28:42 All your trees and crops will be devoured by insects.
Deu 28:43 "Foreigners who live in your land will gain more and more power, while you gradually lose yours.
Deu 28:44 They will have money to lend you, but you will have none to lend them. In the end they will be your rulers.
Deu 28:45 "All these disasters will come on you, and they will be with you until you are destroyed, because you did not obey the LORD your God and keep all the laws that he gave you.
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Post by Gary Tayman on Mon Feb 23, 2009 4:42 pm

Regarding the Bible references, all of the ones you've mentioned are from Deuteronomy and don't necessarily apply to today's affairs. Whether or not the present day circumstances signal something like an upcoming Great Tribulation, form your own conclusion -- I'll stop right there.

One thing that I DO want to comment about is this notion that "GREED" (spoken with teeth gnashing and hands wringing) is the problem. Whenever "GREED" is brought up as the culprit, even partially, it is consistently referring to that of private industry. Yes, greedy ol' private industry is the problem; they just make too much darn money, and the solution to all this here GREED is to take it from them in the form of taxes, to put it in the hands of the pure, honest, reliable, thrifty government, so they can spread the wealth and make everybody happy!

Everybody who follows this "GREED" thing, have you ever run your own business? Think about it; why do you start a business, anyway? To make money! This is BAD? Banks are there to make money, automakers are in buisness to make money, EVERYONE in the private sector is there to make money. Here's another shocker: they hire employees TO MAKE MONEY. An employee's pay is based on how valuable he is, and how much money he makes for the company. If he doesn't make more for the company than the company pays him (including taxes and benefits that are often unseen by the employee), he gets laid off. The business is not a charity; if it tries to be, it will go under because they are NOT making money, and the stockholders will pull out and -- kaput.

Indeed, as stupidly simplistic as it may sound, the most successful businesses are the ones who make the most money. If the money lines the pockets of anyone from the CEO on down, it's because it's deserved. You can pull a million-dollar salary from the CEO; he will leave, and you may be stuck with a cheaper CEO whose former company just folded, losing billions. No; salaries and benefits are all there for a reason.

Sure, there have indeed been instances where a CEO or other top brass have gained money illegally. That's another matter. But when a politician comments that ALL the banks, ALL the automakers, and ALL industries are causing problems because they are ALL greedy, you should know better than to believe him. Again, if they ALL fail, look for a common denominator, such as some new government mandate that caused the collapse. Our current collapse is NOT the fault of millions of greedy Americans. I'm insulted by such a comment, if only I'm trying to make enough money to pay my bills -- and taxes, which are about to go through the roof, thank you.
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