Stimulus Package

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Post by Gary Tayman on Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:03 pm

I just received a private reply stating that I should not use the name "Obama" when referring to the problem, and that I should retract this from my message.

I hereby retract all reference to Obama, along with Florida, Native Americans, North Port, Great Government, and old people whose health care is about to be rationed. First sign of the Fairness Doctrine come to pass. Everyone else should take notice, and remove all reference to any bank, car company, or name of any country. I suppose you may use the name "Bush" when assigning blame to anybody?

How can one POSSIBLY discuss ANYTHING without mentioning names of people who wrote it, signed it, or anybody who has anything to do with anything?
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Post by easyrider8 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:14 pm

Gary

I saw nothing wrong with your post when the names were used in it, I feel someone is getting a bit hyper sensitive.

Dave
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Post by Chimes on Wed Feb 18, 2009 6:15 pm

Gary Tayman wrote:I just received a private reply stating that I should not use the name "Obama" when referring to the problem, and that I should retract this from my message.

How can one POSSIBLY discuss ANYTHING without mentioning names of people who wrote it, signed it, or anybody who has anything to do with anything?

Some just don't want the messiah being attached to anything that might mar Hussein Obama's rock star image (you must realize that some actually believe he can do no wrong), even thought he may be responsible for one of the biggest mistakes in U.S. history.

Edited to add Obama's name just so there is no question as to whom I am referring.


Last edited by Chimes on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Post by bobwilson1977 on Wed Feb 18, 2009 7:10 pm

Its pretty easy to see how that lobbying created an era of deregulation. As mentioned, the biggest contributors to political campaigns were Real estate and mortgage related industries. Their motive was simple: Make politicians look the other way and to also allow them to run unregulated.

Now the big question is how did this whole thing fail so fantastically? ALL parties involved- from the Real Estate agents on up participated.

Real Estate agents worked with the property assessors who inflated the values thus enabling the agent to get more of a commission.

In 1984, Banks went from a system of managing mortgages long term to selling them to other investors on the open market. In doing so, this enabled these loans to be re-packaged and re-sold.

Banks sold these packaged loans to investment banks whom then resold them again, but not before giving them credit ratings of "AAA" when in fact most were of the "BBB" variety. Credit rating services were in fact paid by the banks, so obviously there was a motive to rate mortgages higher than they actually deserved.

Banks and mortgage companies extended more and more cash to home buyers as home prices rose, introducing various loan products such as IO, ARM, Alt-A ( NINJA) No-doc, and so on. We know the rest.

So basically, the politicians were in bed with the housing and lending industry, who were all in bed with each other, who were in bed with investment banks, credit rating agencies, and so on. All with one goal, and that was to push the cost of homes higher and higher.

Then it imploded and we are now where we are at.

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Post by exray on Thu Feb 19, 2009 12:28 am

Gary Tayman wrote:I just received a private reply stating that I should not use the name "Obama" when referring to the problem, and that I should retract this from my message.

I hope that was only a personal observation from somebody rather than an 'official' comment from the site management.

I don't know if you meant all those XXX s in your post.
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Post by mbird97x on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:04 am

At least I know where North Port is at.............LOL

Very good indeed!!!
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Post by exray on Thu Feb 19, 2009 3:30 am

Gary, did you XXX all the names or was that something else?
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Post by Gary Tayman on Thu Feb 19, 2009 7:38 am

exray wrote:Gary, did you XXX all the names or was that something else?

Yes; that was my retraction -- XXX'ing out all the names.
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Post by exray on Thu Feb 19, 2009 9:32 am

Just wondering. Some sites have automatic censoring that xxx's out certain words like Obama's Silly Stimulus Package.

-Bill
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Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:24 am

Bill, I sent a pm regarding that statement. If it happens again, I will deal with it. Your help, and, opinions are much appreciated. Thanks.
Bill Cahill

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Post by Gary Tayman on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:38 am

>>>>Obama's Silly Stimulus Package.


Sorry to kick a dead horse, but it just happened again.
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Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:48 am

Gary Tayman wrote:>>>>Obama's Silly Stimulus Package.


Sorry to kick a dead horse, but it just happened again.

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Post by Gary Tayman on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:52 am

Don't want to keep dwelling on this, but it really irks me. Before I get kicked off this forum, please answer me -- here, so everyone else will also know.

Somebody mentions Obama's silly stimulus, I mentioned Obamacare, I'm the one who gets a nastygram stating that I should not mention any names, nor even the names of parties, and that I should retract these from my messages. HUH? That's why I XXX'ed out ALL the names.

Maybe I could comply, but I don't even understand the rules -- are they being made up as we go along? They don't make sense.

Yes, I suppose you can run your forum any way you wish, and the rest of us can decide whether we wish to use it. Moderation is generally a good thing, but micromanagement, to the point of not being understandable, is a detriment.
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Post by easyrider8 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:05 am

A forum is only as good as its moderators. Preferential treatment should never be used and moderation should always be fair and equal. This was an ongoing concern on ARF and seems to be going on on this forum also. Is there a common denominator to both forums. I think we know the answer.

Dave
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Post by bobwilson1977 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:59 am

I think everyone on here seems to have a good head on their shoulders. The conversation seems to be very cordial. You should see some of the forums I'm on. There's quite a few that I'd probably classify as pretty Conservative, and some of the things these people say in regards to anyone NOT conservative or who acts even remotely liberal is scary. The same with some forums that I've been on that are more liberal. Anyhow, everyone I've met here seems very respectful and mature.

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Post by Doug K. on Thu Feb 19, 2009 1:18 pm

When I last checked, the first amendment was still in force, that is until the socialist government in power now decides to stomp on that too. i am tending to agree with a friend serving over in Iraq in that Obama is secretly part of a sleeper cell.

silent
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Post by bobwilson1977 on Thu Feb 19, 2009 2:15 pm

You know, not to rock the boat, but the whole "Socialist" thing has gotten tired. A non-Republican president doesn't automatically= "Socialist". Besides, if you want proof of government acting as such, look no further than the previous administration's passage of laws that enabled the government to spy on everyday Americans. Anyhow, I'm shuttin' up before I get into more trouble!

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Post by Ken g on Thu Feb 19, 2009 10:54 pm

Naturally all this money will need to be paid back at some point. (plus interest)


If the money making printing factory place would just print/make enough money for every person on earth the problem would be solved . Print it out on its paper and hand it out and stop all the drama .

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Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Feb 19, 2009 11:54 pm

It's turning into another flame war because the same flame baiters as ARF are here.
While politics are allowed here, it was asked to please give NO personal attacks, either to other members, or, politically.
People here don't seem to be following this simple rule.
If this continues, this thread is likely to get locked, so, please, boyz, behave yourselves.
Bill Cahill

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Post by tpaairman on Fri Feb 20, 2009 1:07 am

Here's my two cents on this. I've not read all the way through all of the responses here, but in the news I see a lot of people gripping about how this is just temporary jobs and so on. You have to look at it like this. Some of the money is for infrastructure. Those may be temporary jobs, but while they are out there, they are still a paycheck for someone, and now that someone can go spend a bit of money. That money spent helps a business. It then starts to get to where those businesses can start to grow again, and when the roads are done being built, then there will be more jobs out there to go to. That's why it's called a stimulus and not a fix. When I light a match, it's temporary, but the candle or campfire I light is more permanent.

With that said, I still think there are parts of this that are questionable. But at the same time, do we sit there and debate the best way to get the water out of the ship, or do we start bailing?

The part that I don't like is the housing bill to modify people's loans. In order to qualify you have to be current on your payments and the new loan cannot be for more than 105% of the current value of you home. But the people who are current on payments are the less likely to need the help. It's the one's who are behind that are in danger of loosing their homes.
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Post by Timaaay! on Fri Feb 20, 2009 6:49 am

tpaairman wrote:Here's my two cents on this. I've not read all the way through all of the responses here, but in the news I see a lot of people gripping about how this is just temporary jobs and so on. You have to look at it like this. Some of the money is for infrastructure.
I agree but LESS THAN 5% of the "stimulus Package" will be spent on infrastructure! Do you realize that if we were to pay back this stimulus at one million dollars a day, it would take just over THREE THOUSAND YEARS to pay it all back? What a disgrace that we have transferred the riches of corrupt Government officials and greedy CEO's lavish lifestyles upon our children and our childrens children to pay back. And where is the majority of this money going? Right back to the same folks that caused this problem. The reprehensible people that got us into this mess will now be rewarded and showered with yet more of our money.
Yes, I'm in that boat that's sinking too, but our Government made the hole bigger, took away our buckets is now providing a thimble to bail with. Let's spend the money to actually fix the leak. I, for one, am sick of being the one to bail while the folks that only add more water to the ship are rewarded.
What people may not understand is that this bill was rushed through, without ONE SINGLE SENATOR EVER READING IT! It was over 1,100 pages which was made available after midnight and voted upon the next morning. What happened to the campaign promise that every bills, even emergency bills, would be posted on the White House website for at least five days (for debate) before a decision is to be made?
A real stimulus package would have been welcome relief, but this bill is more about spending than stimulus. I think the next generations deserve better than to have pay our bills.
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Post by Gary Tayman on Fri Feb 20, 2009 7:00 am

Bill Cahill wrote:It's turning into another flame war because the same flame baiters as ARF are here.
While politics are allowed here, it was asked to please give NO personal attacks, either to other members, or, politically.
People here don't seem to be following this simple rule.
If this continues, this thread is likely to get locked, so, please, boyz, behave yourselves.
Bill Cahill

Okay, okay, okay, okay, I can see you're quite upset.

WHY? OVER WHAT?

Obviously you've put Yours Truly into the category of "flame baiter"; I've been reprimanded a few times by you, each time apparently for mentioning the name "Obama", and I am totally at a loss to understand what the problem is, where the personal attacks are, and what I can possibly do to put myself back on your good side.

Every message I've explained WHY I believe the way I do. I have never attacked anybody on this forum; if responding I make it clear what I agree with and what I disagree with. As for Obama, Republicans, Democrats, George W. Bush, Nancy Pelosi, or anyone else in Washington, these are public figures and subject to scrutiny, as has been the case with journalism and editorialism since the beginning of time. I have never made a comment to the likes of "XXX is an idiot"; rather I've explained what I approve of or disapprove of in regards to their policies and statements. When coining a term such as "Obamacare", I'm not attacking the person in any way but am referring to the new laws within the Obama Stimulus Bill that pertain to the new government department being created, whose purpose is to oversee every doctor in the country to determine whether his procedures are cost-efficient in relation to the patient's age.

For heaven's sake, I have been chatting in cyberspace for 25 years; I began online with a KSR printer and a telephone acoustic coupler. I serviced and maintained the first devices of this type that were installed in the Situation Room of the White House, back during the Carter years. I have written for magazines for many years. Never, ever, until now, have I been referred to as a "flame baiter."

For the third time, I'm asking for an explanation.
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Post by exray on Fri Feb 20, 2009 9:12 am

Bill Cahill wrote:Bill, I sent a pm regarding that statement. If it happens again, I will deal with it. Your help, and, opinions are much appreciated. Thanks.
Bill Cahill

Hi Bill C,
Sri, but no PM received at this end. Please resend.
-Bill M
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Post by panther on Fri Feb 20, 2009 4:02 pm

I agree Public figures are open to publiuc scrutiny, and for the most deserve it.
Dan
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Post by exray on Fri Feb 20, 2009 11:11 pm

Its often said nowadays that public "blogs" have more impact than the old mainstream media. I don't doubt it, the general public has very little input to the established media circles. By the same token, anybody who reads news-related blogs understands how unruly they can be even on the major news sites. When you invite the public to comment you get responses from "all walks of life"...and that includes a lot of people who are very strong and vocal in their opinions...and some nutters.
There's not much grey area to be found. Either you accept the public commentary (excepting foul language and individual insulting warfare between participants) or you don't. Management squelching of certain viewpoints is akin to lighting the match that makes the thread explode into an all too predictable outcome. Disagreement on issues is what makes for a lively and intelligent discussion topic where opinions can be formed and some gripes are aired.

-Bill M


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