Guitar amps

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Post by Wildcat445 on Wed Jan 22, 2014 3:44 pm

How many guitar amps do we need? It seems everybody and their brother is tearing an antique device apart to make a guitar amp. If there was a guitar PICKER for every AMP that is being built, nothing would get done for all the guitar picking going on. Seriously. Are the guitar builders working overtime to fill the pent up demand? Why does not some enterprising soul go into the guitar amp building business? That would save our radios from the "twang and bang" crowd.

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WC

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Post by Dr. Radio on Wed Jan 22, 2014 6:03 pm

Whoa, Easy there Mr. Cat....

Perhaps you need to let us know the story behind your observation....I have a feeling this is a vent about an encounter or 2 or 10?  Shocked 
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Post by Guest on Wed Jan 22, 2014 7:29 pm

I see old Knight Kit tube amps and certain tubes (12AX7) going for outrageous prices on Ebay because the "twang and bang" crowd will pay unbelievable money for this stuff.

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Post by Wildcat445 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 12:54 am

I don't see what there is to not understand, Doc.  My comments were well considered and intended to be sufficiently straightforward.  Why do we need so many guitar amps when we may not have that many guitars nor guitar players.  It seems to me that old radios and console stereos are being destroyed to satisfy pipe dreams of some who read more than they can DO.  They destroy and old radio, then find they don't have the skill to build the amp.  

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WC

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Post by Ron Pond on Thu Jan 23, 2014 5:11 am

Wildcat445 wrote: It seems to me that old radios and console stereos are being destroyed to satisfy pipe dreams of some who read more than they can DO.  They destroy and old radio, then find they don't have the skill to build the amp. WC

I think you'll also find that not many of the dreamers who take part in the destruction of radios to make amps can even play the guitar. ( possibly apart from twanging out a rudimentary version of "Smoke on the Water" )

Ron.
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Post by willy3486 on Thu Jan 23, 2014 8:27 am

I think you see these radio amps for a lot of reasons. One is the cool factor. Many of the guitar players I see are into the "coolness" of something. Another reason is the cost is a lot cheaper than a original tube amp. If I took the money I paid and have put in the last 5 radios I have fixed I still probably wouldn't have enough money to buy a old 60s or before tube amp that doesn't work. A lot of musicians may not have that kind of money to spend. Another option is to buy one that is a repo. There again it will be more than some 20 or 30 dollar tube radio they may find.

One thing that is popular now is finding one of the old large cabinet stereos that uses tubes and pull the amp out to make a stereo. I had a guy to bring me one of these amps to setup that way. At first I thought what a waste. But then I got to thinking it was his and he was doing what he wanted to it. Then the case was junk from what he said. Plus I made a little off of it. A plus on this the fellow has brought me a lot of parts and radios he didn't want. If someone brought me one to turn into the radio I would try to talk them out of it but when I saw it was no use I would do it. But I would do it in such a way they could turn it back to a radio. I would also let them know that and offer to do so in the future. I had a Fada bullet I got from a fellow who stripped a lot of parts off to fix others. I was able to piece that back so I know I could redo a amp into a radio.

Its like the old saying why will it matter to throw a starfish back in the water when there are millions of them and the little boy said it will matter to this one. So I don't worry about what I can't save out there and just concentrate on the ones I can. I have so many of my own now waiting to be gone through I probably will never get them all done. For me its just a hobby and I don't worry anymore about the ones I can't do, I don't worry if it is not perfect, I just enjoy it as a hobby. When it gets to the point of stressing me out thats when I will put down the screwdriver and turn off the soldering iron.

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Post by Dr. Radio on Thu Jan 23, 2014 6:55 pm

I guess it's just not something I've really seen or encountered. Yes, I'm aware that happens (good equipment being ransacked for parts or $ greed), but I don't see it being a major problem here locally. Here it seems it's quite the opposite, the guitar crowd goes "nuts" over finding that vintage Fender or Peavey amp, pays top dollar (or the seller wants top $) for beat up garbage then pays someone who has a limited understanding of tubes to "fix" said amp. Most radios are passed over "cause it's just an old radio"--some which ironically have the "goods" inside, such as the 6L6's, the 12AT7's, etc. etc.
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Post by neali on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:29 am

Unless they are raping vintage audio consoles, of course.

The guitar guys are usually kids who want to learn to play. They do not have the money for vintage audio tubes. A vintage 6CA7 or 5AR4 can be $200 and guitar players over drive the tubes into non linear regions. Hense they burn out tubes. So they most buy thenew Russian or Chinese or Eastern European tubes still being made today. Although these tubes can't hold a candle to a NOS tube, they are getting better and none of the old tubes are being made anymore. Someday, the cost of NOS tubes is going to force most of us to use the new ones - at least for the audio stages. And we will be glad that the guitar players, which go through a quad of output tubes every month, kept the nascent industry alive.

Now who are not are friends? The Audiophools. THEY have driven the price of an Amperex 5AR4 to $300 in some cases. These guys spend 6 figures on the their turntables mostly because the size of their wallets is inversely proportional to the size of their manly parts. A lot of these guys are Asian - just saying. Scotts and McMurdo's are being harvested because the Jensen drivers sell for 20 times the cost of the restored or original playing radio. That is who to hate.

COnsole amps make poor guitar amps. Music production is very different than music reproduction. Especially for guitar players.

I was getting rid of a nice VM player with a GE VRII cartridge on ebay. I sold it for $50 locally. I received multiple email offers for $150 for just the cartridge. But no way was I parting it out or removing that historic cartridge from the record player. All offers but one were from Japan. The other from California.

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Post by Wildcat445 on Wed Feb 05, 2014 1:09 pm

Neali, can you imagine some dolt robbing a Concert Grand of its amps to use for a guitar amp? Shocked 

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WC

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Post by neali on Wed Feb 05, 2014 8:20 pm

Concert grand amps are biamps with a crossover before the gain.

The 15 inch driver gets PPP six 6V6 amp and the horn gets PP two 6V6 withthe single exception of the 1958 which had four PPP 6V6 to the 15 inch and one single ended 6V6 to the horn. The 1958 did not sell well.

There is one on ebay now : http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGNAVOX-CONCERT-GRAND-CONSOLE-/181315261155?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a373b52e3#ht_187wt_1265

It would be very difficult for a console raper to marry the horn stage and the woofer stage into an eight PPP 6V6 amp. So difficult, no one that could do it, would attempt it. And no one that would attempt it, would succeed.


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Post by hismastersvoice on Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:09 pm

I murdered a perfectly good cigar box fashioning it into a guitar a couple years ago only to find that my guitar playing talents were nil. I haven't killed a radio yet. Don't plan to...I can actually play a radio.  tongue
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Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Feb 06, 2014 12:15 pm

Smile 

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Post by Wildcat445 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:26 pm

hismastersvoice wrote:I murdered a perfectly good cigar box fashioning it into a guitar a couple years ago only to find that my guitar playing talents were nil. I haven't killed a radio yet. Don't plan to...I can actually play a radio.  tongue

 cheers 

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WC

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Post by Wildcat445 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 1:48 pm

neali wrote:Concert grand amps are biamps with a crossover before the gain.

The 15 inch driver gets PPP six 6V6 amp and the horn gets PP two 6V6 withthe single exception of the 1958 which had four PPP 6V6 to the 15 inch and one single ended 6V6 to the horn. The 1958 did not sell well.

There is one on ebay now : http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGNAVOX-CONCERT-GRAND-CONSOLE-/181315261155?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a373b52e3#ht_187wt_1265

It would be very difficult for a console raper to marry the horn stage and the woofer stage into an eight PPP 6V6 amp. So difficult, no one that could do it, would attempt it. And no one that would attempt it, would succeed.


Got ya, but did you see under the ebay auction for a Concert Grand there is also a tuner for a CG? Somebody took one apart for some reason.  Shocked 

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WC

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Post by Guest on Thu Feb 06, 2014 4:47 pm

I still don't understand what is so special about "black plate" tubes and why they now cost so much!


Last edited by MEZLAW on Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:30 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : spelling)

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Post by 75X11 on Thu Feb 06, 2014 7:46 pm

I'd be willing to wager that that is an arbitrary preference that was picked up by someone with lots of cash and little working knowledge. There must always be some cachet that makes an individual appear to be more knowledgeable than others. I'll bet they couldn't work out the connection in tube quality and a manufacturers' acceptance by the department of defense procurement process as opposed to the color of the tubes' internals.
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Post by neali on Thu Feb 06, 2014 11:53 pm

Wildcat445 wrote:
neali wrote:Concert grand amps are biamps with a crossover before the gain.

The 15 inch driver gets PPP six 6V6 amp and the horn gets PP two 6V6 withthe single exception of the 1958 which had four PPP 6V6 to the 15 inch and one single ended 6V6 to the horn. The 1958 did not sell well.

There is one on ebay now : http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAGNAVOX-CONCERT-GRAND-CONSOLE-/181315261155?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item2a373b52e3#ht_187wt_1265

It would be very difficult for a console raper to marry the horn stage and the woofer stage into an eight PPP 6V6 amp. So difficult, no one that could do it, would attempt it. And no one that would attempt it, would succeed.


Got ya, but did you see under the ebay auction for a Concert Grand there is also a tuner for a CG?  Somebody took one apart for some reason.  Shocked 

Regards

WC

Man,

I just lost what I was typing. Anyway, the guy selling the CG tuner does not have any of the other pieces.

The guy that broke up the CG had a dilemma. Shipping one of those things by craters and freighters would cost about $1600.

So he broke it up and probably threw away or gave away the cabinet. I doubt a guitar player got an AMP out of that CG for reasons I discussed earlier.

I was tempted to buy that tuner as a spare, but my bride would not be happy.

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Post by Wildcat445 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 12:17 pm

If "keeping my bride happy" were the standard, I wouldn't have anything. I try to look at the big picture. I can always get another bride. Finding a tuner for a CG may be more difficult.  Laughing 

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WC

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 1:13 pm

I can always get another bride. Finding a tuner for a CG may be more difficult. lol! 

I've been happily divorced for 15 years and spend my money anyway I want!  Very Happy  Wink 

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Post by Wildcat445 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:09 pm

I must, however reluctantly, give my dear frau credit where it is due. She puts up with more than her share, and that's a fact. But, I will also discreetly point out that sometimes her priorities and mine are not always congruous. So I have to be creative at times to "make her see" the validity of my position. When I wanted a new tool, I found some way to make it benefit her, then there was no problem. You know. That new drill can be used to fix the kitchen cabinet door you have wanted fixed since 1973. Works like magic!  Laughing 

Regards

WC

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Post by Guest on Fri Feb 07, 2014 9:25 pm

That new drill can be used to fix the kitchen cabinet door you have wanted fixed since 1973. Works like magic!

I like that!  Smile 

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Post by Wildcat445 on Fri Feb 07, 2014 10:18 pm

Another trick is to not be TOO good to her!  Had I fixed the cabinet door promptly, then, later the need for a new tool should arise, I would have to wait for something to break before stating my case.  (I have been known to break something, but I don't want you to think I make a habit of cheating).  Since I am always tardy in my handyman duties, it gives me time to re-evaluate my priorities to see if I can use the breakdown to my advantage.

Wasn't there a wise man once who said that happily married was a double negative.  You could either be happy or you could be married.  Something like that,   Laughing  Laughing 

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WC

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Guitar amps Empty brides, like radios, are not interchangeable

Post by neali on Sat Feb 08, 2014 9:54 pm

Wildcat445 wrote:If "keeping my bride happy" were the standard, I wouldn't have anything.  I try to look at the big picture.  I can always get another bride.  Finding a tuner for a CG may be more difficult.   Laughing 

Regards

WC

WC,

I pick and choose my battles. As does she. When something really means a lot to me, like a radio I have to have, I discuss it with her and she is tuned into how much I want that particular radio/phono/whatever. Like getting the CG. The thing is a small aircraft carrier. But I was eloquent and passionate and she likes making me happy, but not to the extent of filling our home with spare chassis. The CG tuner was a spectacular value. It had two 12AX7's and an eye tube and the knobs alone could have been resold to cover the purchase. But I didn't need it.

Someday I may have my 3400 sq ft two decker garage like someone I know and when that day happens, the UPS guy is going to hate me with a passion.  Very Happy 


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Post by Wildcat445 on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:07 pm

You wouldn't be talking about anybody we know, would you?   Very Happy 

I have one on my bucket list, as you know.  Question.  How many different cabinet styles did those come in?  The one on ebay is kinda ugly and my frau does not like the cabinet.  She is down for one if I find one, just not THAT one.  A little more of a "modern" cabinet style is more to her liking.  Something like that old Maggie she uses all the time.  I assured her that a CG was really no bigger than her Maggie.  Am I even close?  "A small aircraft carrier?"  Gulp. Thanks.

Regards

WC


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Post by neali on Sat Feb 08, 2014 10:24 pm

Mine, the 1957, is the smallest at 5 ft x 38" x 19".

The one on ebay is a 1958 which is slightly larger. That was the first stereo one that did away with the RTR. Later 59-61's are all 6 ft long.

In my opinion, mine is the most beautiful with the french provincial styling and the diagonal slats. They made a colonial, a country - the one on eBay, a danish modern and, according to an advertisement, an ebony though no one, not even on thefriends of magnavox group on yahoo, has ever seen one. I have seen the Danish modern and it is not a great example of the style.

I will post some pics when I figure out how to do that here.

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