HVAC/R

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Re: HVAC/R

Post by Ragwire on Sat Aug 17, 2013 11:42 pm

Definitely gives you an edge.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by oldgoaly on Sat Aug 24, 2013 11:00 am

The thing that will make you a better serviceman is you see a electrical failure, knowing all the reasons for that failure and find which one caused the failure will be so much better than a parts changer.  Tracing wires is so much fun! All that stuff I worked on if antiques now!
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:06 am

Had my first day today. Mainly just covered bs school stuff. The instructor said that we will be measuring voltages from 24 volts up to 20K. He said that we will mostly do up to 480 until he generates 20K with transformers. Now i can understand measuring 480 volts since some industrial A/C's,furnaces and walk in coolers will be that high but what would use 20K in that type of setting? Also can good DMM's measure AC voltage that high with probes?
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by 75X11 on Tue Aug 27, 2013 12:53 am

I would guess ignitors for gas.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by Resistance is Futile on Tue Aug 27, 2013 1:35 am

I'll tell you a good High paying job that's better than just homes is industrial furnaces (with A/C as a secondary career), you would have to become an electrician, and a plus would be electronics for industrial controls. I know a close friend that is now 71 and still gets calls to go all over the states and overseas even though He's retired.
He is sorry for not taking electronics from the beginning, so it's very hard for him to learn new controls and the concepts of electronic inner workings.
So many furnaces have outdated themselves and need newer controls to run more economically. My friend told me so many furnaces get botched up by ignorant workers, and staff, so that specialists are called in.

The downside is that companies that produce the controls are cahoots with the NFPA so that no new companies can get a license to compete. So the proprietary controls are the only ones that get to the market place. So if you wanted to design a custom set of controls and program them, you can't.

The upside is a lack of professional Service companies that are competent.
There is a lot of learning if you branch out to concepts of calibration laboratories for gas and liquids, pressure and vacuum and flow control.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Tue Aug 27, 2013 2:58 am

I wouldnt think igniters would have to have that much voltage even for extremely large burners. However i could be wrong.. I'm sure that is really good money but i'm trying to stay local or near-by and only trying to do it part time and then maybe do my own thing once i have gained enough knowledge. My knees do not allow me to stand for long periods of time. I like electrical and electronics, but i would not want to be an electrician. I've already been shocked enough times by 120VAC, i'm not trying to get thrown 2 rooms over by 3 phase of any voltage. 120VAC is plenty for me.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by oldgoaly on Sat Aug 31, 2013 3:58 pm

8-10kv are oil burner ignitors, not sure what the little plastic boxes put out, not much of a high voltage warning on them. they really don't need to jump that far! You really would not want it to jump to anything else!!!!
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by 75X11 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 6:27 pm

Mine was a logical guess as there would not be many other purposes for such a voltage level. Here is another type of ignitor and they show the applied voltage as 10 to 30 Kv.

http://www.globaldenso.com/en/products/aftermarket/plug/basic_knowledge/spark/index.html
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:07 pm

Yup. That is what my teacher said the other day. He said they are usually 10 but can reach 20k. Although i do not know how he expects us to check voltages that high when most meters are only good for 1k. 75x11, that igniter you showed looks very similar to the type of igniters in Reddy/forced air heaters. Except the heaters use much less voltage and a pretty normal looking sparkplug.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by 75X11 on Sat Aug 31, 2013 10:21 pm

The way I would check a gap of that type would be to place a plain white sheet of paper in the gap and let 'er rip. It should have some black dots or pinholes where the spark passed through. Either that or blow some more loot on a HV probe and a storage meter or o'scope. Very Happy 
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:55 am

That is another thing he said he could do. Except he said he could make it pass through cardboard. I thought he was saying that more for demonstration purposes but maybe not.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Wed Oct 02, 2013 12:02 am

Well my electrical session is over tomorrow. Man it was tougher than I anticipated..I think I did OK in it. The hardest thing was the motors,transformers and different types of relays. The wye and delta wired xfmrs and motors and the current and potential relays. The motor starters are a bit tricky but not too bad... The different switches can be tricky but I pretty much know what they are and how to troubleshoot/identify them. One of the hardest things we had to do is draw up a schematic with 10 loads and 20 switches. Then making a legend and typing up the sequence of operation. It actually had to be something that made sense and actually did something. I go into service and procedures next. I will learn soldering/brazing,different refrigerants,and how to use a recovery machine.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Wed Oct 02, 2013 10:38 pm

Ended up with a C in electrical/electronics. That is about what i was expecting.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by 75X11 on Thu Oct 03, 2013 12:15 am

Good work! Good luck in your next classes.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:47 am

Well I had 2 days of service and procedures 1 and I'll admit it is a bit tough and complex but I'm learning. We learned about pressures and different types of heat and heat transfer. While talking about barometric pressure my instuctor made water boil at room temp by pulling a vacuum on a bottle of water. We are also learning the refrigeration cycle. He also gave everyone 2 componets to research and I got king valve and receiver. Which means I'll be explaining those in class tomorrow.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Sun Oct 20, 2013 10:37 pm

Just giving a small update. I have spent 2 weeks in a class titled service & procedures 1. In there we are learning the basics of refrigeration,refrigerants and how to service refrigeration equipment. Last week we learned how to use a few advanced tools related to refrigeratgion. The manifold gauge set,recovery machine,vacuum pump and refrigerant id machine. So far I used each of those things except the vacuum pump, that is only bc we ran out of time. Tomorrow I will be pulling a vacuum down to 500 microns or so on the system I recovered refrigerant out of. Then will be pressure testing it with nitrogen and refilling it with refrigerant.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by Ragwire on Mon Oct 21, 2013 8:32 pm

I use to do that boiling water at room temperature bit for my HVAC students. Some of them insisted there must be air getting in to make it bubble. Laughing 

Now that you got a vacuum pump, you can build your own vacuum tubes. They will be crap compared to later factory made tubes, but they can work well enough. Cool 
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:04 pm

I don't have one. All the tools I use are the schools. I would like to get my own tools but not quite yet. Although I am getting my own refrigeration wrench and maybe a set of manifold gauges. That way I can possibly start doing minor refrigetation work. Id like to get a vacuum pump and recovery machine also but those are high dollar tools and out of the question right now.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by Ragwire on Wed Oct 23, 2013 12:07 am

Oh well, you'll get some tools soon enough.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by simplex1040 on Wed Oct 23, 2013 4:59 pm

I made my vacuum pump out of a compressor from a frezer
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:10 pm

Interesting. How did you manage to do that and how well does it work?
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Thu Nov 07, 2013 1:08 am

Just an update. I now know how to braze copper with oxy acet using silver brazing rods. It was tricky at first but I got it in a few days. We have to cut them open diagnolly then my teacher will smash them looking for lack of filler and cracks. We are also soldering, but I haven't quite mastered that yet. Once we solder we have to slice through one layer of tubing and then my teacher peels the top layer looking for missed spots or un melted flux. It just is a bit tricky getting a perfect solder. It is much more difficult then I thought it would be. Hopfully I get it down tomorrow, since it is the last day of week 5. Only 1 week left then its A/C class.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:13 am

Good luck.

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Re: HVAC/R

Post by 75X11 on Thu Nov 07, 2013 6:17 pm

You'd think it would be relatively easy, what with knowing electronic soldering. It aint, as I found out when doing soldering work on waveguide flanges. It looks like you are getting some very useful skills in your course. Continued good luck.
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Re: HVAC/R

Post by tuberadiogeek on Thu Nov 07, 2013 8:19 pm

Oh yeah I know.. I thought the same exact thing for years. I think propane is part of the problem as it barely gets the copper hot enough but if you heat it too long it will be too hot and not draw the solder in. I may try mapp gas on my own sometime. My teacher mainly wants us to know how to braze since we will braze more often than solder. Today was a short day since my teacher was in a metting before class and since it is open house this weekend we had to start cleaning early. I also started my hands on test today where we each have to service a unit step by step to prove we can do it individually. I'm on a heat pump unit charged with 22 and I found out really fast why its used in ac units while unhooking hoses from the recovery machine.
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Re: HVAC/R

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