Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

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Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:20 pm

I recently purchased an Edison C-4 Radio Phonograph combination.
Starting to carefully go through and check things,especially the transformers,based on some earlier forums i have read.
So far they look to be ok..
One of my concerns is that the Speaker is in rough shape...
The cone surround is completely gone,although the cone is still there.
I thought i had read on an earlier forum that there are some guys out there that have experience with the Edison Radios,and might help on how to deal with the speaker.
Any help is appreciated..

Jeff in Indiana

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Guest on Wed Jun 19, 2013 11:18 pm

You can read this thread and see the owner of TRF knows quite a bit about them. He is in the hospital right now and should be back soon so you may have to be patient. Very Happy


http://www.tuberadioforum.com/t1722-edison-radio-parts

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:37 am

Thank you Mezlaw...
I will continue to test the other components,so i have a complete status of the Radio...
Appreciate your help...Have a good day....Jeff

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:38 pm

Currently working my way through the power unit.. 8P
I have a schematic,and i have been testing the transformers,both power,and audio.
The power transformer is ok,as are the audio transformers located on the power chassis.
I have determined that there is a 10k 5 watt Resistor   indentified as R15 on my schematic that is missing.
Not a hard thing to replace...
I also tested all the tubes...Had to find an old Tube Tester on Ebay...
The #80 Rectifier was toast,but i have found a replacement.
The two #45 tubes in the Amp are ok...
All of the #27 tubes in the Radio are good except one,and i have found a replacement.
The Phonograph motor is good,and runs fine.
Interesting that the speed control on this motor is a mechanical governor that is also used on all of the Edison wind up motors.
Wanted to share what i have found so far...Thanks...Jeff

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Bill Cahill on Fri Jun 21, 2013 5:39 am

Welcome to the forums. I have alot of expeerience on these radios, and, can help you on it. All the power supply filters MUST be 600 volt min. 630 is fine. There is  quite a surge in these sets. Be careful, as it takes very little to wreck the power transformer.
They are a great sounding set when properly restored.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Fri Jun 21, 2013 9:08 am

Thank you Bill..
I collect Edison Phonographs,and this is a great piece for the collection.
I read the earlier thread on the Edison Radios,and i am being very careful to test everything.
I plan to replace all of the Caps,as you mentioned.
What are my options for the Speaker?
The cone is there but in rough shape,and missing the surround.
The Speaker Coil is ok.
Greatly Appreciate the help,and expertise with this...Jeff

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:36 am

Wanted to give a status update.
I have gone through the power unit,and found that the power resistors need replaced,there are two.
I am also replacing the caps in the power supply(this is an obvious one...).
Interesting that all of the caps in this unit are in cans,encased in a black substance like tar.
Pulled the phono motorboard and set aside for now,the motor runs,and the pickup is ok..
I am working through the radio portion at this point,and identifying all of the caps that need replaced.
They are combined into cans,and nothing is labeled.
I have found that most of the resistors are close to their schematic values,but not quite.
Not sure if they used low tolerance parts,or they have drifted out of tolerance.
I am ordering replacement caps and resistors at this point.
Looking at putting in a permanent magnet speaker,and retaining the field coil as a choke.
I read about this in another post.
Will keep updating...Have a good day...Jeff

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by tuberadiogeek on Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:14 am

Your number 80 was probably bad from someone running it with bad filter caps. As the bad filters will allow too much voltage to your rectifier and stress it out. The missing resistor could of done it too. (and make it glow super bright and hot.. i found out the hard way with a 5Y3,which is a 5 pin version of an 80)
In regards to the speaker, you have a few options. You can look into just replacing the surround with a basic/generic surround for that size speaker if the cone is still in decent shape.
If the cone needs minor repair tissue or light weight paper can be glued onto the existing cone with either white glue or rubber cement. If you have tears you can use either of them types of adhesives, but i personally like fingernail polish. It works very well to mend a paper cone.
If the cone is completely shot you can likely have it re-coned professionally but that can get expensive.
If none of those are an option then you can replace it with either another field coil speaker, which can be hard to find and sometimes very expensive OR replace it with a PM speaker of the proper impedance and either use a choke or a wire-wound resistor in the 1K ohm range i believe to replace the coil. You also may be able to use the existing coil.
As far as your can caps, they should usually have a square,circle and/or a triangle with voltages listed next to them. In the schematic it should tell you the capacitance of each section(shape) of the cap. Once you figure that out most people unhook them and put regular electrolytic caps underneath them if you have the room on the underside of the chassis. You leave the can in place for looks.
Resistors do drift, usually up in value which is OK to a certain extent. I can't remember exactly how far they can drift to still be tolerable.


Last edited by tuberadiogeek on Mon Jul 01, 2013 4:15 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : misspelled mend)
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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Jul 01, 2013 11:35 am

That radio is worth doing correctly. I'd have speaker proffessionally re coned. If the filters shorted out, you may have a fried power transformer.
I have an extra power suppy I might sell.
One resistor is used as a bleeder. Other is in series. I'd also check the special filter choke. It's tapped.
That radio has PP 45 audio output tubes, and, puts out fifteen watts of audio.

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:09 am

Great info and help,I appreciate the advice...
I have carefully traced the wiring in both chassis,and identified all of the caps,and which can they are in,so i can begin replacing them.
Good News..I found a speaker repair specialist in Ohio that can recone my speaker.
I am going to double check all of the resistors against the schematic,but i have found that they tend to increase in value,as mentioned.
Just not sure if i should replace them or not.
As a side note... The two #45 tubes that are in the radio test good,but are on the weak side.
Any recommendations for a good source to replace them,at a good price?
Have a good day...Jeff

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by tuberadiogeek on Thu Jul 04, 2013 2:02 pm

Where at in Ohio are you? There are guys on here that sell good used and new old stock tubes. You can also buy tubes off of eBay if you choose or a place called Fair Radio sales, which is in Lima. I actually live within a few miles of there. You can either go there in person or purchase off there website and have stuff shipped to you. However i did not see any 45's on there site. www.fairradio.com
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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Sat Jul 06, 2013 12:12 pm

Thanks for the advice on the tubes,i will check it out...
I live in Indiana,near South Bend..
I have seen plenty of tubes on Ebay,but some of them seem a bit high priced,so i thought i would see what other options are out there.
Waiting for my capacitors,and resistors to come in,and then i will post more follow up..
Thanks again...Jeff

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Vintage Tunes on Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:13 am

I am working on a C-4 right now.

Just started tearing into it. This thread my be interesting in the near future.

Family that I got it from said it had been playing well for years, then just stopped one day. Hmmmmmm.

~jeff~

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:49 pm

Alot can be wrong. In power supply the 600 volt paper filters will short, and, fry the power transformer. There are two resistors in power supply that are always open. The special driver transformer used driving the audio output tubes tend to open. Don't bother looking for replacements. They are special, and, the only thing that can be done is to re wind them.

There are alot of paper caps that will also need replacing in both chassis's.
The good news is when properly done, these are excellent sets.
Wish I had one right now.

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by fordtech on Thu Aug 29, 2013 4:07 pm

I will be getting the speaker back from my Edison R6 tommorrow from the Speaker Shop in Ohio. My 11 inch Edison had to have a hand made cone built for it because they dont make 11 inch cones anymore. They charged me 125.00 plus I paid about 40 dollars total shipping both ways.

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:11 pm

I also had my Speaker Re-Coned by the Speaker Shop in Ohio...
They did a great job...
Update on my C-4 Radio Phono Combination.
Replaced all of the Caps in the Power unit,and had to Replace the Power Resistors,along with a few wires.
Replaced the Power Cords with new cloth covered replica wire...
Fired it up yesterday,and it runs absolutely quiet...Put audio through it with my Tone generator,and it is working great...
Now i am replacing all of the Caps,and Resistors in the Radio Unit...
So Far So Good...

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Sun Sep 29, 2013 10:49 am

Update on my Edison Radio C-4 Radio/Phono Combination...It Works!
Replaced all of the Caps,and all of the Resistors in the Radio unit.
Hooked it together yesterday,and it crackled to life.
I am fortunate to have a local AM Station with a strong signal,as i noticed that this radio does not have strong Sensitivity,even with a long piece of wire.
It runs very quiet with no hum,i wasn't sure what to expect.
I do have some pictures that i took along the way,in case anyone is interested.
Have a good day everyone...

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by 75X11 on Sun Sep 29, 2013 4:54 pm

Please do post pictures of your radio. We enjoy seeing them!
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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Sep 30, 2013 1:33 am

Yes. Please do. We definately want to see them.............By the way. You have to use a photo hosting source, such as photobucket. The French group that owns the software doesn't give the option to do it directly from your computer..

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:50 am

Thanks for the interest...
I am going to try to provide the pictures through Photobucket.
Hope it works....Jeff
http://s945.photobucket.com/user/jsmcsb/slideshow/

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Sun Oct 06, 2013 11:53 am

Quick follow up...
I created the before pics slideshow first.
I will add the during rebuild pics,and working unit pics next.
Just to note that is only for the electronics.
I haven't done any work on the cabinet yet.
Have a good day everyone...Jeff

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by 75X11 on Sun Oct 06, 2013 8:13 pm

Nice pics, thanks for sharing!
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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Oct 06, 2013 10:28 pm

Yep, looks like a project in progress....
Worth saving, though.

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Jazzyjeff on Sat Oct 12, 2013 4:52 pm

I have uploaded my pics of parts replacement,and the unit operating to the photobucket slideshow.
Have a good day everyone.

http://s945.photobucket.com/user/jsmcsb/slideshow/

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

Post by Bill Cahill on Sat Oct 12, 2013 8:07 pm

Nice job. May we see, and, hear it play??

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Re: Edison C-4 Radio and Phono combination.

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