Motorola 85F21

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Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 1:50 pm

I have a Motorola 85F21 I am refurbing. The radio is complete and working...now to the phongraph. This is my first phongraph so I have a seemingly dumb question.
How does the turntable come off the spindle. There was a keeper ring at the bottom I removed but when I lift the table it stops at the drop machanism. Since forcing anything 60 years old is not a wise decicsion I thought it prudent to reach out to those with more experience.

Ben


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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by fixinmyphono on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:34 pm

I would use some steel wool around the spindle to clean it up some and then some light oil and then try gently pulling it off...
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Wildcat445 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 3:54 pm

Another suggestion is replace that old clunker 78 rpm changer with a more modern stereo changer from the 1970's. Not only will it be possible to get one of those to actually work, but they will play records other than 78 rpm and will be easier on records and compatible with stereo records. Just bridge the stereo cartridge for mono, modify the motor board to allow mounting the newer turntable, and you are good to go. The newer changer may still need servicing, but it would be much easier on records and will play something other than a 78. Cheap stereos like Juilette, Emerson, Yorx, and others use BSR changers that work well for this purpose, have good ceramic cartridges, and will work well with stereo records. Good luck.

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WC

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 4:28 pm

by fixinmyphono Today at 1:34 pm
I would use some steel wool around the spindle to clean it up some and then some light oil and then try gently pulling it off...


Thanks, I'll give that a shot.

[u]by Wildcat445 Today at 1:54 pm
Another suggestion is replace that old clunker 78 rpm changer with a more modern stereo changer from the 1970's. Not only will it be possible to get one of those to actually work, but they will play records other than 78 rpm and will be easier on records and compatible with stereo records. Just bridge the stereo cartridge for mono, modify the motor board to allow mounting the newer turntable, and you are good to go. The newer changer may still need servicing, but it would be much easier on records and will play something other than a 78. Cheap stereos like Juilette, Emerson, Yorx, and others use BSR changers that work well for this purpose, have good ceramic cartridges, and will work well with stereo records. Good luck.


Wildcat....you are funny....did I mention this is my FIRST phonograph. I have not idea what you are talking about or how to do it. You have a link to how this is done? As with all things new I'd like to see the orignal work first then think about make modifications.

Thanks guys,
Ben
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Wildcat445 on Mon Feb 18, 2013 6:34 pm

Funny (ha-ha) or funny (odd? )

Funny (odd), I have been called before.

I am not sure what I said that was ambiguous. I shall re-phrase with more detail. Sorry if I was vague.

The changer in your radio/phonograph combination console is made to play 78 rpm records only. If all you want to do is play only 78 rpm records, then, by all means, repair and service the original changer and you should be set to go. This repair and service will require cleaning and lubing the changer mechanism, removing, dis-assembly of the motor and cleaning it and lubing it. Then you will probably need a drive wheel for the turntable and possibly (probably) a new cartridge and needle. That should enable you to be back in business. You can only play 78 rpm records with this setup.

If, on the other hand, you replace the original changer with, say, a BSR stereo changer, from a stereo of the late'60's thru '70's vintage, you would be able to play not only the 78 rpm records, but also 45's and 33 1/3 rpm LP's, including stereo. Such a transplanted changer would still require some service, like a new drive tire, new needle and a good clean and lube to operate dependably for years to come. But the advantages would be the ability to play nearly any record you should desire, play stereo records safely, and be more practical and servicable than the original old clunker ever was. A BSR changer is commonly found in those cheap "all-in-one" units so prevelant in the area I mentioned above. BSR changers are generally devoid of chrome and other gee-gaws and can be repainted and made to look "old" and not out of place in your radio cabinet. Since your radio is not considered a "fine, rare, antique", its value would not be appreciably affected by transplanting the newer changer into the old cabinet. The ceramic cartridge commonly found in BSR changers will be compatible with the amplifier in your radio, so that circuit mods to the radio should be unnecessary to make this setup work. There are a wide variety of needles available. BSR changers were commonly used in cheap stereos and can still be found in thrift stores, garage sales, and similiar. They can be had for really cheap prices in most cases. I have 7 of these cheap stereos, just for the turntable, and the most I paid was $3. The hardest part about transplanting a "modern" stereo changer into your radio will be replacing or modifying the mounting board (motor board) to allow the new changer to fit. Each case is different, but you should be able to figure out what mods are needed just by looking at your motor board and figuring out what is needed. The stereo output of the changer is bridged, or both channels hooked together, in order to provide a mono output to your amplifier. "Y" adapters are available at Radio Shack to accomplish this feat. Then you hook the output of the bridged stereo changer to the same place the old changer was connected to provide input to the amplifier. You should now be able to play stereo records safely, be able to play 45's and 78's. I have three radios thus modified. A Crosley 66 CSM, A Philco 41-609 and a Philco 46-1226. I painted the changers in these units with wrinkle paint and used a felt platter mat to simulate the original fuzzy material on the platter. This is a HUGE improvement over the original changers, especially the horrible Philco D-10.

I was not my intention to "be funny", as I was quite serious in my response. Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

Regards

WC

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Feb 18, 2013 7:59 pm

Wildcat...funny ha ha or odd....both are fine my me. I just happen to have a late 70's TEAC turntable on the shelf in the shop. Not sure why I've held on to the darn thing for so long. May give it whirl and see what happens. Thanks for the suggestion and instruction.

Blessings,
Ben
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Removing turntable

Post by rajasurian on Wed Feb 20, 2013 3:19 am

Spray WD40 and wait for a while. Then with a gentle nudge you should be able to remove the turntable disc.

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Wed Feb 20, 2013 9:33 am

Buffing with steel wool, couple drops oil and some elbow action it came right off. I have cleaned and oiled the motor, gears and slide action. Used a small amount of vaseline to lube the gears. Next I'll install it and give 'er a whirl. If it works then I'll see if I can make the old 1972 Technics turntable I've been holding on for 40 years fit and work in it.

Thanks guys,
Ben
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Wed Feb 20, 2013 6:38 pm

Dang.....Ipulled the Technics turntable off the shelf and it is just plays 33 & 45. I guess that is better than just 78. I fired it up, connected a speaker and it works like a champ. Even the drive belt is still good. No signs of dry rot. I kept in a closet for years up until about 2 years ago. then moved it ot he the radio area in the garage. Now I have to see if I can make it fit in the Motorola cabinet. Still need to put the old TT back in the cabinet first.....just for fun.
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Guest on Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:48 pm

The first console I did was one just like yours without the preset tuning. The folks I did it for had no 78's so I cleaned up the TT for appearances sake and set up an input for a soul Mp3 disc player I gave them. They listen to otr in the winter and baseball in the summer. They had kept it around for 35 years before restoration.

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:27 am

Not sure what I want to do at this point. I like the looks of the old 78 TT and to be truthful I don't listen to vinyl much this date anyway since I setup my own broadast station. I use it to pump oldies thru all my old radios in the house. I have a fair amount of 78's on hand just for nostalgia.
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by fixinmyphono on Thu Feb 21, 2013 6:31 pm

I'd keep it as a 78 player there's always another phono down the road that can be your 45- 33 player.... Smile
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:28 pm

The phonograph has been cleaned, oiled and ready for testing. Connected it to the chassis, I can hear the record playing faintly from the the stylus but nothing coming thru the spaeaker. Yes the switch in in phono postion. I have traced the continuity from the stylus wires back to the chassis connection and that is also good. There is a 1 meg resistor and a 200 mmfd cap in that curcuit and they are within tolerance. If I check the continuity on the cartridge between the 2 pins it is infinent. Does this mean the stylus and cartridge and wiring is good. Is this and amp issue? The radio plays great but phono is "no bueno".



http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/260/M0012260.htm

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:43 pm

Have You tried another signal source to the phono input? It is a real possibility that the cartridge may be bad. That was the deciding factor for my only doing a cosmetic job on my turntable.

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by repairtech on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:27 pm

Come on now!
That crystal cartridge is date-stamped in 1946, and you expect it to still work in 2013?

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by fixinmyphono on Sat Feb 23, 2013 2:52 pm

Sure Motorola quality!!! Wink or when I get that flux capacitor working again, I'll go down to the corner record store and buy some new cartridges and some tubes at the drug store....and bring them back for us all Sad
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Wildcat445 on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:14 pm

I have a Philco and a Detrola record player/radio combos, circa 1946, that the cartridges are still good in. Running on borrowed time, no doubt.

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:40 pm

They built things on the 40's last.............. sure I would think it might work...big might....ok, maybe not.

I have another turntable I'm going to connect to see if it works.

Anyone have a source for a new cartridge. I see lots of site but none referencing htis style. I can't tell if the P# on it P33, 83 or 93.
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:47 pm

Forget the other TT, I connected another radio into the phono jack and it palys fine so now I need to find a cartridge. Suggestions?
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Guest on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:51 pm

I have this company in my bookmarks. Haven't used them though.

http://www.west-techservices.com/p1.htm

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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by fixinmyphono on Sat Feb 23, 2013 3:55 pm

I use this one alot.
A little modification and it works well

Pfanstiehl P-51 Astatic 51 I got it from voice of music site Smile
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by jtauser on Sun Feb 24, 2013 1:11 am

The odds are very high that the salt crystal in that cartridge has turned to mush. I rebuilt a Philco turntable with that exact same Shure cartridge and had the cartridge re-done by West-Tech services -
http://www.west-techservices.com/p1.htm
You send them your cartridge and they rebuild it. Mine worked perfectly when I got it back.

If you are feeling adventurous, one of our highly skilled club members put this solution together:
http://www.angelfire.com/electronic2/radiosean/tv/Cartridge-rebuild.htm

If you Google "rebuild crystal phono cartridge" you'll find more ideas on what you can do.

I never knew a 78 could sound so good until I heard it on a fresh cartridge.

Joe T.
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by Ben Delk on Sun Feb 24, 2013 10:13 am

fixinmyphono wrote:
I use this one alot.
A little modification and it works well

Pfanstiehl P-51 Astatic 51 I got it from voice of music site


Do you mean modifing to fit the pick-up arm?

jtauser wrote:
If you are feeling adventurous, one of our highly skilled club members put this solution together


Interesting. Sounds doable....may give that a whirl.

Thanks guys,
Ben
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by fixinmyphono on Sun Feb 24, 2013 12:21 pm

Yes Alot of the time the holes line up and you can attach the tone arm wires to the cartridge and away you go but you must also beware of the tracking weight on the needle sometimes you will need to find some counter balance for the other end of the tone arm Im gonna have to do that very thing with my Rca KWU78
Granted the old cartridge weighs alot more than the new one will but the metal tonearm is still pretty heavy for the new cartridge and needle that will go in it Doug





[quote="Ben Delk"]fixinmyphono wrote:
I use this one alot.
A little modification and it works well

Pfanstiehl P-51 Astatic 51 I got it from voice of music site


Do you mean modifing to fit the pick-up arm?

jtauser wrote:
If you are feeling adventurous, one of our highly skilled club members put this solution together


Interesting. Sounds doable....may give that a whirl.

Thanks guys,
Ben
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Re: Motorola 85F21

Post by fixinmyphono on Sun Feb 24, 2013 8:05 pm

Saw A idea in another website that might help us both with the p-51 cartridge Try using a small peice of felt or carpet and hot glue it to just behind the cartridge inside the tone arm sticking down so it helps relieve the pressure on the needle. Think I'll try it soon on mine to see it it works.. Doug
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Re: Motorola 85F21

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