I Made A Move Into The 21st Century

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Post by Wildcat445 on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:00 pm

And, Repairtech, with all due respect. You say that Phillips/Magnavox is on your "junk" list. Go into Walmart. Look at their promotional tv's. Note the brand. Phillips. Every damned one of them. They run 24-7 forever, until they fall from the ceiling from fatigue. Some of them I know of are over 5 years old. Junk, you say?

Regards

WC

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Post by N7ZAL on Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:29 pm

The replacement TV we bought 2 years ago is "Emerson," from Wal Mart. Of course it is made in China but it seems like everything else is also. As far as Wal Mart's customer service we have found it to be excellent. We just bought 2 Windows 8 computers for under $300 each. They said we could return them within 2 weeks for a full refund. No questions asked. Seems fair to me.

I do see our buying as "disposable" items, but we have had great luck. The repair costs are so high it doesn't pay to have items repaired anymore. About the only repairable items are cars...all the rest go into the dump. I'd rather have repairable electronics but the "cheap" stuff does us fine.

JMO
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Post by terrydec on Sat Dec 08, 2012 7:05 pm

I once bought an Apex DVD player from Walmart. It wouldn't play so I took it back and insisted that they demonstrate the new one before I took it. They opened box after box and NONE of them worked. They insisted that it was the DVD. I walked over and put it into a Panasonic on display. The disk played perfectly and they finally sold me the much more expensive Panasonic for the same price.

BTW- RCA, Zenith, Magnavox...whatever- I'll bet you money that the parts are from China and the sets are ASSEMBLED here.
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Post by Ken g on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:36 pm

What country do you live in ? around here we have stores who will help with those , deliver them and set them up . I know of 4 shops here in this small town who will fix those ( one is me )

When you buy one that cheap it has a good chance of not lasting as long as some of the ones just 300$ more than you paid . I can guarantee your tv was not made by RCA , its probably one of those sets filled with the parts that did not pass their final test ( defective ) and used in these lower $ electronics . I see this all the time .
Finally , i hope this set lasts you for a long time . It does happen .

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Post by Guest on Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:52 pm

These days, when purchasing any big ticket item, I first find items based on the specs I want in them. Then I look up each one's reviews. I have had pretty good luck doing so. My dvd-rw recorder has done well for about 6 years now. I bought it manufacturer refurbished for $96.00. It is a magnavox branded funai.

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Post by terrydec on Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:01 am

Amazon.com is a great source for reviews about a product. I always check them first.
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Post by repairtech on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:20 am

Wildcat445 wrote:And, Repairtech, with all due respect. You say that Phillips/Magnavox is on your "junk" list. Go into Walmart. Look at their promotional tv's. Note the brand. Phillips. Every damned one of them. They run 24-7 forever, until they fall from the ceiling from fatigue. Some of them I know of are over 5 years old. Junk, you say?

Regards

WC
All well and nice, but I'm not impressed by the Philips brand (you misspelled it - one L)
I don't care for their build quality - something you'd never see, unless you took 40 screws off the back to peek inside. (and know what you're looking for)
I've seen enough of them to know - and the company's lousy tech service towards us pro-techs. - they've soldified their reputation among us already.
And at least 40% of all the sets that come into my shop are Philips, that's enough for me, I'd never have one in my home.
The other Walmart crap set is Sansui.... a real doozy to get parts for, IF available.
(most times not)

As for your RCA, good luck with it, even though it's not an "rca" anymore, the name was bought by an asian corporation, as was so many other American brands.
That corporation makes Audiovox too, another well known crapola brand.
From what I've seen of the recent RCA sets, their build quality is about as shoddy as Audiovox/china. (you've actually got an Audiovox with a different name on it)
And, with all due respect.... I hope you don't have to go through having it serviced.
I've already heard the frustrating horror stories from others...

See, the thing is with these asian companies, they buy the name, because they rely on Brand Recognition, as you did, to buy their product.
But the quality once attributed to a Brand Name simply isn't there anymore.

I've had customers bring in Zeniths, and tell me they always bought Zeniths, because of their quality, etc... and I tell them their current set is really an LG. (Goldstar)


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Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:39 am

I'd really have to agree with Radio Tech. The crap made now is mostly from China, and, they are sellling us crap. Alot of people think that name brand sets are still made here, and, that just isn't so.
The companies we once knew no longer exist. Only in name.
Very sad, in my view..........
Bill Cahill

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Post by repairtech on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:01 am

Bill Cahill wrote:I'd really have to agree with Radio Tech. The crap made now is mostly from China, and, they are sellling us crap. Alot of people think that name brand sets are still made here, and, that just isn't so.
The companies we once knew no longer exist. Only in name.
Very sad, in my view..........
Bill Cahill

I try to educate others as to the almost criminal aspects of product sales taking place today.
Diverting people's good, hard-earned American money to corporations overseas that don't give a crap about quality, reputation, or safety, here in the states.
Using the sneaky scheme of Brand Recognition - such as those "Crosley" knock-offs is one example.
Older people, seasoned with a familier (and trusted) American brand, often stick with the same brand, even today.
Younger people, sadly don't have a clue, but are lured by shiny exotic stuff - without any quality behind it.
These corporations are banking on people to be ignorant, plain & simple.
But have no fear - the corporations already got your (American) money, and you're left with crap, when it breaks.
And I don't give a rat's ass about after-the-purchase consumer support, or what's printed in warranty statements.
Because when the time comes, you'll be given every excuse in the book why the clunker you bought cannot be serviced or exchanged.
The consumer is left frustrated and brainwashed to the point of "just buy another".
Some, speak their minds - online - and start class-action suits - like the muliple lawsuits against Samsung, for instance, for their hoardes of bad tv sets.
Philips is another one.....
Vizio, another...

But, we're fed this crap, and it's gotten worse through the past decade - so much so that it's become normal daily brainwashing to us.

Being a tech, and registered with paid tech data sites for information, I trade stories with the other techs, and we see the aweful products out there on a daily basis.
It's enough to make your head spin.

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Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:19 am

ON the other hand, we never were great either. One good axample is RCA Victor. They sold contracts that you had to renew every year at a high cost. For my mother it was 75.00, then, went up to 125.00.
They canceled the contract before it was even finnished, and, we were out. That tv needed a fair amount of repairs.
The first major one was when the yoke shorted out.
It was all downhill from there.
And, there was a fair amont of junk sold by such compannies as Atwater, Airline, Silvertone, and, the like... Oh, yes. let's not forget Sentennel, and, others.
Now, don't get me wrong. I still think what we offered was superior in quality to the junk you buy now, but, I'm only saying that big business has always been greedy.
I always try to tell people about today's junk. inevitably, they just say," well, that's all we can get, and, face it. It would be too expensive to buy decent."Hmmfff. I say save the old, and, use it. Show the crap makers we are tired of their garbage.
My washing machine is over 11 years old. Yes, it's had repairs done. But, guess what! No cpmputer, and, it's OH, so easy to use.
Bill Cahill

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Post by N7ZAL on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:51 am

Deleted


Last edited by N7ZAL on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:21 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Deleted post because it didn't express clearly what I wanted to say.)
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Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:57 am

My comments weren't meat to spite you. It was merely my thoughts. Sorry if I insulted you. That clearly wasn't my intention.
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Post by N7ZAL on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:02 am

Yikes Bill, don't take my post that way. I didn't feel offended or anything spiteful in your post !!
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Post by Steve Johnson on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:17 am

Speaking of newer TVs, I ran into this video of a repair that some might find interesting:

Panasonic Flat Screen Repair
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Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:13 pm

In 1971, when my wife and I were researching the purchase of a new color tv, there were as many scare stories and negative comments from repair people as there are now. I was advised that those new "transistor" tv's were unproven and troubleprone. I was trying to decide between GE, RCA, Magnavox and Zenith. Curtis Mathis was way too high priced. I settled on RCA because it was about $30 cheaper than Zenith, a pile of money to a kid working as a truck driver. My RCA XL-100 has run 41 years. It was recalled in 1973 for a defective green module. I hadn't had any trouble with mine, but the dealer replaced it free. The power switch broke in 1980, and the dealer had one on hand. IT still works as well as it did in 1971. It has four speakers, and sounds pretty good, but is not stereo.

We wanted a stereo tv in the late 80's. Our old RCA had served us so well, that we only considered RCA this time. Again, the service people advised us to avoid RCA because it was owned by "that French company, Thomsen" and and the parts were made in Japan. Horrible service nightmares. We got our 36" RCA Home Theater console for around $1400 at Christmas time 1992. Funny thing, it was built in the same plant as the "real" 1971 RCA, in Indiana. We remodeled our house in 1995 and wanted a tv for our new family room. I went to Best Buy in Phoenix, got another 36" RCA, again made in Indiana and it still sits in the family room and still works just fine.

Lest I sound like I have a negative opinion of service people, quite the contrary. I appreciate and actually solicit comments from service personnel and get "Worst case" scenerio. Then I read the customer ratings of the product and make my decision from that. I respect the opinions of the professional service personnel on this board and appreciate them sharing their experiences. (I will only put one "L" in Philips in the future. Sorry)

I did not share my experience with everyone for the purposes of making any claim that what I did was the best thing for everybody. I felt that there were lots of people like me who were wrestling with this same decision. Perhaps my experience, and the ensuing discussion, will help them with their decision.

Best regards to all and thanks

WC

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Post by Ken g on Sun Dec 09, 2012 1:30 pm

I hope wildcat does not think we are picking on him . Most people dont know all this stuff about brand name switching and faking or quality issues of today.
He did good on that big of tv for the price . I hope it lasts at least 10 years .

Capacitors are a huge issue in electronics today . Sometimes i think they are made bad on purpose . I have bought many nice electronics with a few bad capacitors , lots of customer stuff has them too . Yesterday it was one of those Philips lcd sets . 4 capacitors burst on top . After 4 new ones it workked fine , 20 minute job .
As many of you know electronics years back , 70's or so would last a long time . A tv set could go 20 years , radios ...never broke .
A customer gave me a 12'' Zenith black & white tv . It has all tubes inside and might me from the late 60's or early 70's with a plastic case . I plugged it in & it still works and holds a picture for hours .

It looks like they are slowly slipping in all of this ( self destructing ) electronics these days . Doing that gets all these new young people used to it not lasting so they can buy more .
Most if not all of our good old brand names that costed alot and lasted as mantioned already are cheap insides now . I believe this is done because of the average consumer buys the lowest price stuff on the shelf in the store . That means they wont buy enough of the good old well made Sony products so Sony and others fixed that by installing cheap stuff inside .

In many cases those electronics that stay on in store displays all the time can go for years . It may sound strange but these new type capacitors that go bad or weak will go better when warmed up . If you have a display set with some weak capacitors , those capacitors will hold on longer when kept warm . If you unplug the set and let all those weak capacitors get cold it probably wont work .
I have seen this many times in customers stuff . It worked fine till they unplugged it and moved or painted rooms . When replugged it would not work . When i get into these i may find a few pretty dead capacitors .
If i put a hot soldering gun on top of some of these caps with the tester on them they will reach a usable value , remove the heat & they drop dead .

All in all here ... i dont think there are any real solid quality tv sets made anymore . If you happen to get one that actually got decent quality capacitors in it then you will see it last longer .

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Post by terrydec on Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:11 pm

Zenith was the first producer to use 'circuit board' technology. I can't count the number of Zenith's that I spent re-soldering. The double-sided traces were the worst.

I have an October copy of Electronics Illustrated with a VERY interesting article. It's why I've kept it all these years. The title is "If it's made in Japan is it good?" Essentially it asks the question-If Japanese manufacturers "could" make products as good as ours what would be the effect on our economy. The author's verdict is no and we know how that turned out.

This could become a thread of it's own and I'm not trying to hijack this one-just make a comment:
The Chinese government subsidies their industries in order to artificially create a market that we cannot compete with. I've seen photos of workers in slums with the entire town working to put together products like cell phones right next to polluted rivers. And one other thing. This country is now billions of dollars in debt to a bunch of Communists!!! What is wrong with this picture?
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Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:00 pm

Ken....I do not feel picked on in the slightest. No problem there. I appreciate your input and that of the others. My dilemna of what tv set to buy, particularly when I was not in any hurry to change from CRT, was not a unique one. Especially with people my age.

In my research, I found that the worst "killer" of flat panel tv sets was video games. My suspicion is that the operators of the games (mostly young) are likely more at fault than the games themselves. Young people tended to have more problems and less satisfaction, no matter the brand, than older people. A sense of responsibility and the value of a buck probably played a large part in this, IMHO. The RCA set I got, a model 50X40something, had a five star rating, both on Walmart's site, and Amazon. com, with a 4 1/2 star rating on BestBuy's site. The lower BestBuy rating was due to a younger customer base there than at Walmart or Amazon. In our area, those are the retailers most conveniently available to me. We are not blessed with having ANY service personnel who will service tv sets anymore. Places that have service shops are rare, and lucky, indeed. And, going on the old retail addage that no retailer builds or sells intentionally inferior products, I made the decision that I made. Walmart had the best price and bundled the tv with a surround sound system.

Thanks again for your input and encouragement

WC


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Post by repairtech on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:05 pm

First, to address some of the above comments:

Every manufacturer has its "good" and "bad" issues.
To clarify, Manufacturer "X" made a decent set, Model "P" around 1975.
The design was well thought-out, and used quality parts from the vendor "X" was under contract with - at that time.
The set had a good reputation, and word of it spread.
All fine....

But a few years later, "X" dealt with another vendor, for whatever reason...
The sets made had numerous issues, or maybe even a recall notice.
In some cases, poor design causes a set to be failure-prone.
So... "X's" reputation fell... word got out.

In some corporations, this is rectified, corrected, and the consumer is taken care of - the proper thing to do.
In others, it's masked, laden with stipulations, and complex, confusing warranty blabber... the consumer is frustrated to no end.
Most times the poor consumer is left with no choice but to buy something new - fighting a big corporation is too bothersome.
And corporations know this, and use their powers against the small consumer.
The chances of multiple consumers banding together to form a class-action suit are small. - and the corporations are prepeared for such.

It's a doggy world out there. - you have to be a real savvy shopper.

The "bad capacitor" issue - was hidden for years until word spread through the internet.
It's the result of sneaky corporate business, and many people paid the price, and still do.
Dell, among many other manufacurers made a boo-boo, and tried to cover it up, and reduce their losses.
But it's not all about the bad-caps - it's also poor cheap design by stupid designers.
I've seen flat-screen sets from the inside, all the time - extremely hot heat sinks mounted just below or next to capacitors, overheating them to premature failure. - heat rises.
These sets show up at the shop a lot.

Some sets had poor wave-soldering, or overheated resistors due to bad design.
Others had bad or under-rated IC chips.... the list goes on.

Japan learned their lesson - in the beginning they made cheap crap - now their products are popular and well-made.
China, other asian companies, are in their infancy as Japan was.
Making crap.

This is why I'd choose a Japan-made product (next to American-made) before anything.
They last - I get my money's - worth from them - they're well-designed on average.
Panasonic has had its flukes, as I stated - on occasion one comes in the shop, but repairs are not a horror story like other (chinese part) sets.
Their overall rate of failure is much lower than others.

You buy what you want - actually the chinese sets help to keep us guys in business!
Because if every set never broke - we'd be out of business!
LOL!

Me? - I've got the smarts beyond the average consumer, because I know what's inside sets from daily experience.





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Post by repairtech on Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:33 pm

Wildcat445 wrote: .....The RCA set I got, a model 50X40something, had a five star rating, both on Walmart's site, and Amazon. com, with a 4 1/2 star rating on BestBuy's site.

I never rely totally on "reviews".
First, much of them are on recently-purchased products, by people with no real education of the workings or design of said products.
And how could they? - they're housewives, students, clueless husbands.
Sure, a shiny-new product a few weeks or months old will get a good review.
It hasn't had time to age......yet.

I rarely see reviews of products a couple of years old.
But I DO see them in the shop - some sets barely a year old, now out of warranty, and now the consumer has to pay yet again for something they didn't know at the time was short-lived junk.

"But I thought Magnavox was a good brand!" ..they cry...
Sure, it was....... but lady, you just happened to pick out a model with poor design and known issues.
How could anyone know?

And yes, I've gotten customers telling me "this set had good reviews, I don't understand it"...
So that means nothing to me.
I work in a busy repair shop - that is my insight, and that is my education towards specific brands.

That is why I said - you could have spent another mere 50 bucks, and gotten a set I know has a history of quality and reliability.

Hey, I loved RCA Victor stuff, I own some "Victor" stuff, but know the quality became lower in the 70's when they dropped the "Victor" name, and way down today... when it's nothing but "RCA" a 3 letter initial to cheaply-made products.


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Post by Wildcat445 on Sun Dec 09, 2012 6:26 pm

I surely do appreciate your insight. Perhaps if I were fortunate enough to have a repair shop close that I could have consulted, my decision might have been different. Time will tell, I guess. Sometimes, I have had to use the best information I could get and roll the dice. Since we have beaten this horse enough, the mods can lock this thread.

Thank you

WC

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Post by Doug Burskey on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:07 pm

Not only electronics small kitchen appliances.The only one I can think of that is still serviceable and made in the the USA is the Kitchen Aid mixer. About 2-3 years ago I repaired my sisters 25 year old Kitchen Aid,it only ran at high speed.All that was needed was a new electronic speed control circut board,and now it's ready for another 25 years.

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Post by N7ZAL on Sun Dec 09, 2012 10:50 pm

The only one I can think of that is still serviceable and made in the the USA is the Kitchen Aid mixer. About 2-3 years ago I repaired my sisters 25 year old Kitchen Aid,it only ran at high speed.

Yes and they are built like tanks. We had one years ago that we gave to our daughter and bought another one about 3 years ago. Seems like the same construction. Excellent mixer, but not cheap.
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Post by repairtech on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:05 pm

I've got a 1969 Sunbeam Mixmaster like this one, except mine's Harvest Gold with the glass bowls.
Still runs like a champ.


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Post by Guest on Sun Dec 09, 2012 11:26 pm

Capacitors are a huge issue in electronics today . Sometimes i think they are made bad on purpose

Ken, I have to agree with you about capacitors. I can't begin to tell you how many capacitors I've had to change in Samsung telephone equipment. We had two different models of Samsung phones systems where over 95% of the installed systems died due to failed electrolyitic capacitors in the power supplies. My customers can't come to me, so I had a lot of windshield time which I never got compensation for.

After reading this thread I guess I'll keep my 30 plus year old Zenith running and not be to quick to get rid of it!

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