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Post by terrydec on Wed Oct 17, 2012 1:59 pm

Okay, this is a touchy subject and I hope it is not inappropriate. However I feel the chain of events that happened to me is something I should share in case someone else has had, or does have, a similar experience.

I have moderate to severe chronic pain which my doctor treats with pain medication. Its effects have reached a plateau and are no longer adequate. Due to a recent law passed in Kentucky he cannot increase or change my prescription so he referred me to a pain management clinic. They refused to take me and here’s why-

In 2011 I had outpatient surgery. My doctor prescribed Morphine. Unfortunately he made an almost fatal mistake. Instead of prescribing 30mg of it twice a day he confused me with another patient and prescribed 100 mg twice a day. When my nephew finally took me to the emergency room I was almost in a coma. My doctor told them that he was at fault but somehow that information never made it into my chart. The hospital treated me as a junkie that took an overdose and I was treated as such, a pariah. My hospital chart does not say that I was treated for an “accidental drug overdose due to doctor error”. When the pain management clinic checked my records this popped up.

Now I’m trying to obtain the hospital records and the doctor’s records. Fortunately the prescription is still on file. I’m hoping that I can put it all together and set the record straight.

P.S. Don’t make any comments about how I should now be rich by suing the hospital and doctor. That was never an option for reasons far too complicated to relate here.

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Post by simplex1040 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 3:50 pm

Yeah the actions of a few make it tough on the rest. The "KASPER" law I think will hurt more than prevent, the junkies are going to get their meds ( street) while the legits can't from MD's
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Post by terrydec on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:05 pm

simplex1040 wrote:Yeah the actions of a few make it tough on the rest. The "KASPER" law I think will hurt more than prevent, the junkies are going to get their meds ( street) while the legits can't from MD's

Yep!
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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:07 pm

That's terrible, I hadn't heard of such a thing before. The pain management clinics here hand out meds so freely they call 'em "pill mills" and in some areas are given the same regard as shops that sell drug paraphernalia. Can your doctor advise you on any other options or a clinic that would accept you?

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Post by terrydec on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:13 pm

BTW- I actually contacted both the Governor and State Attorney General's office after this bill was passed. Surprisingly a member of the AG's office contacted me by email. He said that they were going to change the law just because I asked. Razz Razz Razz

Seriously, he did say they would make an effort to see that I got the medication I needed. I might take him up on it with this current problem.

(I think I'll wait until after November though)
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Post by terrydec on Wed Oct 17, 2012 5:21 pm

19&41 wrote:That's terrible, I hadn't heard of such a thing before. The pain management clinics here hand out meds so freely they call 'em "pill mills" and in some areas are given the same regard as shops that sell drug paraphernalia. Can your doctor advise you on any other options or a clinic that would accept you?

What you describe is why Kentucky passed it's Kasper law. That's why my doctor can't prescribe a stronger medication. I have to go in every three months with my vial so the pills can be counted and sign 5 pieces of paper swearing that I'm not selling, trading, or taking more than prescribed. I take 6-8 pills a day. There is another medication that I would only take twice a day and work better. It is a schedule II and that's why I need a pain clinic.

And you wanna know the worst part? I don't even get high on 'em. That ship sailed years ago. (Actually, I kind of miss that part Cool )
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Post by Wildcat445 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 8:49 pm

My wife suffered a back injury in 2007 that required surgery to correct. Her surgeon prescribed Oxycodone for pain, over my objections. The pain did not seem to be managed well with this strategy, so the surgeon referred my wife to a pain management clinic.

They ran a battery of expensive, Medicare re-imbursed tests. All they ultimately did was to INCREASE her dosage of Oxycodone by a factor of 3!

Three weeks after the pain management visit, my wife of nearly 40 years became beligerent, angry, foul-mouthed, and would rant and scream at the least thing. She became combative and abusive. The pain management clinic doctors recommended institutionalizing her, since I could not control her. She pulled a knife on me one evening, so I had to do something. Fast. She complained of excrutiating pain constantly. She was addicted to Oxycodone. Ever-increasing doses did nothing to eliminate her pain. She only went downhill.

I made an appointment with my cancer doctor and talked to him about this situation. He went into another room and came back with a huge bottle of 1000 sugar pills. Placebos. They were made from corn starch. Three weeks after I started giving her the new "medication", the miracle drug my cancer doctor used on his patients, I had my wife back. And the strange thing was, she had no more bad back pain. The occasional twitch, but nothing that Ibuprofen will not handle.

This comment is about my experience with pain clinics and is not intended to infer anything about Terry's situation whatsoever. It is important that we are clear on that.

Good luck, Terry. I will keep a good thought for you.

Regards.

WC

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Post by terrydec on Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:50 pm

Allergic, and even psychotic reactions to narcotic pain medication are rare, but not unknown. They include nausea, hives and extreme agitation among other symptoms. I know people who simply can't take pain meds.

Another often overlooked problem is interaction with other medication, including over the counter drugs and especially supplements. Most people don't consider these 'drugs' and figure that they are "Harmless".

And do you know what they call the person who almost flunked out of medical school? -Doctor

There have been times, more than one, when I have stood up to a doctor and reminded him that he was not God, although he expected to be treated as one. Doctors are people and they make mistakes. Mine did, and it came VERY close to killing me.
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Post by Wildcat445 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 9:59 pm

I am alive today because of the God-given talents of a doctor in Kansas City. No doubt about that whatsoever. I am sorry that your experience has apparently been different. I wish you well.

Regards.

WC

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Post by Guest on Wed Oct 17, 2012 10:29 pm

If your doctor is not suiting your needs, you should seek out another. His or her working with you in a productive manner is of vital importance to your well being. it is diffucult to appreciate that until you find the one that does.

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Post by simplex1040 on Wed Oct 17, 2012 11:48 pm

19&41 wrote:If your doctor is not suiting your needs, you should seek out another. His or her working with you in a productive manner is of vital importance to your well being. it is diffucult to appreciate that until you find the one that does.

Which because of KASPAR in KY you the get labled for Dr. shopping.
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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:20 am

OK......I had to look up the acronym

Kentucky All Schedule Prescription
Electronic Reporting (KASPER)

KASPER is not intended to:
 Prevent people from obtaining needed drugs.
 Decrease the number of doses dispensed.

Who can obtain a KASPER report?
Access to KASPER reports is carefully controlled through identity and credential
checks and secure Web access. KASPER reports are available only to the entities
and health care professionals listed below:
 Prescribers for medical treatment of a current or prospective patient,
 Dispensers for pharmaceutical treatment for a patient,
 Law enforcement officers for a bona fide drug-related investigation,
 Licensure boards for an investigation of a licensee,
 Medicaid for utilization review on a recipient,
 A grand jury by subpoena, and
 A judge or probation or parole officer administering a drug diversion or probation program.

Sounds like it shouldn't be too hard to nail the Dr. that messed up your dosage!

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Post by terrydec on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:31 am

19&41 wrote:If your doctor is not suiting your needs, you should seek out another. His or her working with you in a productive manner is of vital importance to your well being. it is diffucult to appreciate that until you find the one that does.

This is harder to do than it might seem. Many, if not most people are intimidated by the medical profession. Unfortunately the "Doctor as God" complex is very real. Ask any nurse. Plus a lot of people have a hard time vocalizing their problems as well as their fears.

And sometimes you are locked into a doctor or clinic according to your insurance or money situation. Too many people are forced into the "Emergency Room Health Care System" and have no control whatever.

That said I am also blessed with a personally caring physician who is also my friend. Over the years he has invested in my business, we've shared beer and chicken wings after his divorce, I installed his home theater system, I've watched his kids grow up and seeing him always makes me feel better. He's also been with me through cancer, broken bones, hepatitis, mental illness and much more. I wish all of my health care providers were like him.
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Post by terrydec on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:50 am

MEZLAW wrote:OK......I had to look up the acronym

Kentucky All Schedule Prescription
Electronic Reporting (KASPER)

KASPER is not intended to:
 Prevent people from obtaining needed drugs.
 Decrease the number of doses dispensed.

Who can obtain a KASPER report?
Access to KASPER reports is carefully controlled through identity and credential
checks and secure Web access. KASPER reports are available only to the entities
and health care professionals listed below:
 Prescribers for medical treatment of a current or prospective patient,
 Dispensers for pharmaceutical treatment for a patient,
 Law enforcement officers for a bona fide drug-related investigation,
 Licensure boards for an investigation of a licensee,
 Medicaid for utilization review on a recipient,
 A grand jury by subpoena, and
 A judge or probation or parole officer administering a drug diversion or probation program.

Sounds like it shouldn't be too hard to nail the Dr. that messed up your dosage!

Thank you for posting that, I mean it. But once again nothing is as simple as it seems. Although on the surface this seems like a good idea in reality it causes more problems than it cures.

Here is a portion of the email that I sent to the State Attorney General:


I resent the fact that I am now to be treated as if I were a drug addict by a state law that discriminates against the poor and disabled by requiring extra trips to the prescribing doctor. This not only overloads an already stressed system but causes unnecessary costs to insurance companies plus federally funded Medicare and state funded Medicaid. These costs will obviously be passed on to the general public by higher insurance premiums and taxes.



The new law is an obvious attempt by the lawmakers to bow, not to public need, but to media attention. The media survives by promoting a constant state of fear and this is a classic example.



While it is true that a very small segment of our state population abuse these medications, there are programs already in place to address these problems. Dealing with this should be left to law enforcement, NOT by legislation.


This is exactly what I was talking about earlier. My doctor now has to do paperwork on every person that he prescribes pain medication. He had to drop over 30 people in the first month alone because they didn't meet all of the criteria. He isn't prohibited from proscribing certain medication, he's too scared. If he doesn't dot every "i" and cross every "t" he could lose his license to prescribe.

Jack Conway, the bill's sponsor, promised to put 100 doctors in jail in the first six months. That's not a cure for the problem, it's just plain intimidation. And oh yeah-not bad for getting votes either.

P.S. the problem with the doctor happened last year, before the new law was passed.
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Post by Guest on Thu Oct 18, 2012 1:59 am

I searched Kasper shortly after Simplex 1040 posted last about it, and bookmarked it under old radio. It looks like it is having the problems new laws face when concept meets reality. Here is the full text.

http://chfs.ky.gov/os/oig/KASPER.htm

Too many laws create problems as opposed to eliminating them. I hope your letter has some constructive effect.

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Post by harold wright on Thu Oct 18, 2012 4:32 am

Instead of going into a "rant" I would recommend a book I read titled Our Daily Meds.
An eye opener. I think most allopathic doctors are too quick to get the prescription pad and start writing. I use a naturopath Dr. I avoid regular Dr's as much as possible.
I think they kill more people each year than guns.

Harold

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Post by willy3486 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:33 am

There are lots of good drugs out there but because of addicts they get over regulated like this. I use to take actifed for allergies. It worked better than anything out there but due to it being used to make meth I can't find it anymore. As far as addicts goes if the drug made similar to meth called croc that is in Russia now ever gets here you will see a lot less addicts. Its bad what it does to them and like some drugs they dies in years ,this can kill them in months or less.

As far as reactions to stuff I use to have to take a lot of stuff as a kid. I also had to take allergy shots. I remember one time I had a shot and had to wait to see if I had a reaction. I went out side and watched the cars go by. I was waiting for the perfect car to jump in front of. I was baving some kind of reaction. As I got older when I got to be a teen I outgrew some and I also didn't let my mom know if I was sick.

I also noticed the biggest problem I had was cigarette smoke. So I started staying away from smoke as much as I could and I got better. I eventually quit taking anything unless absolutely necessary. I felt a lot better. So anymore I almost take nothing except for blood pressure medicine. One time I was desperate and actually asked my doctor for something to relieve my back pain. I had hurt my back bad and could not sleep over a couple of hours a night. I drive about an hour one way to work so I was having problems almost falling asleep going to work due to not sleeping. He wouldn't give me anything due to these people who make meth. I only wanted it to take at night before sleep. Like it was posted a few addicts makes it hard on all the other folks out there.

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Post by terrydec on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:44 pm

cat
Under the new rules a VET needs to get a written prescription from an MD before he can administer a pain shot to an animal.

Yeah-that's a really good thing. Evil or Very Mad
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Post by terrydec on Thu Oct 18, 2012 12:49 pm

Addendum- Sorry, a VET, which is a licensed doctor, can administer a shot, as long as he is physically on the premises and fills out the proper paper work. But what if your animal has an emergency and the VET is not there?
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Post by Dr. Radio on Thu Oct 18, 2012 8:39 pm

Sorry to hear of this grief Terry.
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Post by simplex1040 on Thu Oct 18, 2012 9:25 pm

The doctors at the hospital are more afraid of doing something wrong under KASPER and go to jail.
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