Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Go down

Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:18 am

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/373/M0003373.htm

Picked up a Crosley 515 recently, not working of course, Replace all the caps, checked the resistors. Powers up but no sound. The speaker coil and intermidiate transf both have power on them. If I get close to the speaker I can hear a slight hum but that seems to be more from the voice coil i think. The speaker has 1 small hole but the spider in the center has 3 legs and all are broken so I'll need a new spider unless I can find a way to replace the legs. If I connect my signal tracer to ground and touch the probe to the top of the 6d6 IF tubeI get great sound out of the tracer speaker and I can adjust the voulme control on the radio and it goes up and down. Same if I put the probe on the Osc 6d6 tube top. I check the continuity from the ocs coil to 1st IF trnf to grd, 47.5k. From osc coil thru 1st IF trnf to the cadeum groud, 20.9ohms. Went back over all my solder connections, ok. Thoughts?

avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 13, 2012 11:55 am

My guess would be silver migration of built in caps in one, or, both of the I F transformers.
Check your secondary voltage. It should be 0, or, a low negative voltage. If you get a positive voltage, there is your culprit.
Bill Cahill

_________________
Please also join us here;  http://videokarma.org/index.php
avatar
Bill Cahill
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4559
Age : 66
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Thu Sep 13, 2012 12:09 pm

If it is "sm" is there a reasonable fix?
I'm assuming IF trnfsm secondary voltage , correct?
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 13, 2012 1:39 pm

Ben, what do you mean by "SM"?
Yes, I mean the I F transformer secondaries.
If you have any Positive voltage there, transformer is bad.

Let me tell you.
I have an Emerson AM radio. I re capped it.
Tried radio. A hum. I turned up volume control, and, saw it sparking. Oh, oh!
Put my meter on it, and, got positive 35 volts on it. I quickly turned it off. I replaced transformer. Problem solved, radio plays.
Bill Cahill

_________________
Please also join us here;  http://videokarma.org/index.php
avatar
Bill Cahill
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4559
Age : 66
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:33 pm

"SM"....sliver mica".
I found an article on cleaning"sm" and installing new mica caps underneath the if trnfm.
Ok, I'll keep checking stuff.
Thanks
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:25 am

Bill....what am I looking for when checking the 1st IT trnsf primary and secondary voltage (ac-dc). Also where is the best point for the meter test leads for this reading.
There are 3 wires coming out of the bottom of the 1st IF and one out of the top. Of course the top goes to the 6d6 IF tube. Of the three lower, one goes to the OSC coil (+230 volt). One goes to chassis ground. One to a terminal strip along with a wire going to the 2nd IF, then a wire connecting the terminal strip to the cadnium.
Speaker voltage look good and a did the "quick speaker test" pulling the output tube with power on, ok. Then screw driver end to the speaker pole, it pulls strongs.

I checked continuity from the end of the power plug to various connection point back to the electrolytic caps just be sure that was correct and matched what the schematic shows, ok. From there checked the same to the speaker, ok. So Ithink I have pretty much ruled out the E caps and speaker. ....Sorry to be so long winded.
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Bill Cahill on Fri Sep 14, 2012 11:49 am

O.K. I don't have the schematic on this set, and, didn't realize age. That's completely different.
Now, we have a new set of rules.............
First, have you tested your tubes?
Second, if this is a multi band radio, have you tried cleanning switches, etc........
Third, what condition is the wirring in? If it is rubber, or even cloth, what condition is it in?
Next, have you tried checking all your resistors?
Next, what about the mica caps? There may be a shorted mica cap, especially on the oscilator.
Next, have you tested the resistances of the oscilator coil itself?
Hope all this helps.
Bill Cahill

_________________
Please also join us here;  http://videokarma.org/index.php
avatar
Bill Cahill
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4559
Age : 66
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:22 pm

http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/373/M0003373.htm
http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=51&u=17421296
http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=52&u=17421296
http://www.servimg.com/image_preview.php?i=53&u=17421296


#1> I have tested the tube, even replaced them.
#2> Yes, multi-band. I have cleaned it but that thought cross my mind in the weeee hours early this morning so that was my next try when I get home to double check the brass contacts.
#3> Cloth wire in pretty good shape, nor ragged, loose covers.
#4> Resistor test within tolerance
#5>Mica caps??? If you are referring to the ones in the IF tranfm, no. If you mean the usual flat looking 3 or 4 dot ones, I honestly don't recall seeing any.
#6> I have not check the resistance on the osc coil, just used a signal tracer at different connection on it and get a strong volume thru my signal tracer speaker.

Thanks
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:48 pm

Should I unsolder the osc coil connections before checking?
Also, I'm getting irratic readings from the 6d6 connected to the 1st IF and it appears to have pretty significant crack in the wafer socket and the rivet or brad that holds the socket wafer on the chassis is loose on one side. This brings up another question. These wafer sockets appear to have a brad that will need to be driled l out but when replacing the brad what you repairman using to secure the the new socket to the chassis? There not much room in the chassis top or bottom to put another brad in nor room for a rivet gun. Any suggestions here if I replace the socket?

avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by simplex1040 on Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:10 pm

I just use a small bolt and nut to secure socket down.
avatar
simplex1040
Member
Member

Number of posts : 304
Registration date : 2008-03-14

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Resistance is Futile on Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:21 pm

You need to do a resistance check on the speaker coil, or jumper the audio transformer secondary leads to speaker coil leads with a Permanent magnet speaker to see if the new speaker works. Do not disconnect anything yet. If the speaker is damaged I would think either the speaker coil is open or shorted. Since it has an audio transformer if you turn up the volume all the way you should hear the transformer give out a faint audio that you can hear this is call transformer singing. do You have B+ to the audio output tube plate? By the way the schematic has different tubes shown is the schematic vs those shown in the tube layout diagram. error will Robinson error
Either your audio transformer primary is kaput or the secondary or the voice coil. I don't think your speaker field coil is bad because it filters out the B+ and if open the radio would be totally dead.
Ben clarity is essential in descriptions. did you test both the speaker voice coil and the speaker field coil? You just stated I tested the speaker coil but did not specify which one. if the spider is broken then the coil could be shorted or open from rubbing against the center pole of the electromagnet.
avatar
Resistance is Futile
Member
Member

Number of posts : 977
Age : 73
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:50 pm

Cliff, he already did. And, he's getting a low audio hum.
Sounds like the 6J6 oscilator socket is the culprit.
You need a new socket.
Bill Cahill

_________________
Please also join us here;  http://videokarma.org/index.php
avatar
Bill Cahill
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4559
Age : 66
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:22 am

Cliff.....about the schematic and tubes error.....I don't see what you are referring to. The tube layout and the tube socket voltage chart look ok. Are saying the # placement (22, 23, 24, 25a,b, etc.) to identify the tubes on the schematic are incorrect?

Bill.....I ordered a 6D6 IF socket last night.

I find working on old radios a very humbling experience!!

Ok, thank you both gentleman. I have a 4 inch perm. mag. speaker so I'll cut the old speaker voice coil and connected the new speaker to that and see if I get sounds.
I theory if I place a signal tracer probe on the osc. coil and get music, then start moving forward connection by connection, when I lose the music that should at least point to a problem. I this case I get music up to the 6D6 1st IF tube and the 6D6 Osc\Mod tube but nothing from there forward.

avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Sep 17, 2012 8:25 am

Thanks simplex1040, I'll give that a shot.
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:40 am

If you are getting music, the speaker is not your problem.
Bill

_________________
Please also join us here;  http://videokarma.org/index.php
avatar
Bill Cahill
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4559
Age : 66
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:43 pm

The music is coming thru the speaker on the signal tracer not the radio speaker.
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Sep 17, 2012 2:10 pm

IN any case, didn't you say a socket fell apart?

_________________
Please also join us here;  http://videokarma.org/index.php
avatar
Bill Cahill
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4559
Age : 66
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:04 pm

Well not fell apart but the 6D6 1st IF socket does have a nice size crack in it and the rivet on one size bit loose so I did order a new socket for replacement just to elimated the possiblity.
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Resistance is Futile on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:46 pm

I am refering to the schematic link that was posted, or am I blind????
http://www.nostalgiaair.org/Resources/373/M0003373.htm

Look at page 6-12 fig 2A top View
It shows 80 rect
6B5 output
76 det
6D6 I.F.
6D6 Osc
------------
Now look at page 6-11
That schematic shows
22-24-23-25B-25A are these not tube numbers? or am I out to lunch. Sounds like a pissing contest, come on quit. Sorry for the rant but am I right or wrong?????
avatar
Resistance is Futile
Member
Member

Number of posts : 977
Age : 73
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Resistance is Futile on Mon Sep 17, 2012 3:53 pm

Bill!
He said the Speaker On the Signal tracer, the signal tracer has a built in speaker.
And back to My question Ben Delkagain did you test the Original speaker?
avatar
Resistance is Futile
Member
Member

Number of posts : 977
Age : 73
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Sep 17, 2012 4:51 pm

Cliff....I see what you are referring to on the schematic. I had issues with that as well but after reviewing the whole document I determined the engineer that created the schematic (for some unknow reason) substitued the parts legend reference item numbers into the schematic. Part # 25A is 6D6, #25B is 6D6, #24 is 6B5, etc.....

Sorry guys....some of us have not been doing this as long as others and are still trying to feel out way around. I'm not sure about a "pissing contest" but if I were in one my shoes would definately be wet. Maybe it's time to put this back on the shelf and just look at it.

Blessings to all,
Ben

avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:05 pm

Found 6d6 socket on a junker and put it on the chassis. That seems to have solved part of the issue. Before the replacement socket I only had sound coming thru my signal tracer speaker up to the 6ds sockets. Now I have it pretty much on any cap or resistor I touch with the probe but still nothing from the radio speaker.
Cliff I checked the original speaker and here are the values with no power. The intermidate transf = .714k ohms, the voice coil = 1.08k ohms. Ran out of time tonight but I plan to cut the voice coil wires and connect a permanent magnet speaker as a test tomorrow. I will try to address your other questions or suggestions at my next opportunity. Thanks for the help.
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Sep 17, 2012 9:10 pm

I'm bowing out of this subject. Sorry, Ben. I am not in a pissing contest, and, was not chewing out anyone.
I thought earlier you had said you tested the speaker. I guess I was wrong.
Good luck, Ben. Cliff is very knowledgeable, and, I'm sure he will help you.
Bill Cahill

_________________
Please also join us here;  http://videokarma.org/index.php
avatar
Bill Cahill
Admin
Admin

Number of posts : 4559
Age : 66
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Ben Delk on Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:18 pm

Bill you are correct I did say I had checked it I just did not recall the value when Cliff asked. Since I work a full time job during the day I have to wait until I get home to check for specific when someone asks. Not sure where all of this got sideways but I do appreciate tyour help and if you choose to bow out I will understand that as well.
avatar
Ben Delk
Member
Member

Number of posts : 443
Age : 67
Registration date : 2012-04-03

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Resistance is Futile on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:20 pm

"Speaker voltage look good and a did the "quick speaker test" pulling the output tube with power on, ok. "
This needs clarification. Saying speaker voltage looks good---Where did you make that measurement?-----------------
note:
There are four different coils in the audio output section shown in the schematic .
Look at the two top ones inside the dashed outline of the speaker.The second one ( of the two) on the right is the voice coil winding.

Then there is the field coil on the left also a integral part of the speaker frame. It is usually several thousand ohms, it uses DC to magnetize the speaker poles in place of a permanent magnet. It has the black and yellow wires connected.

The two second coils below that are the audio transformer primary marked with a brown wire and a green wire that is the primary that is connected to the last audio tube plate, it is usually high resistance. (P1)
Green wire (goes to the plate) and the brown wire looks like its connected to a yellow wire at some point this is a common tie-point for the two different wires

Then you have the secondary winding coil that is used to match the impedance of the third (the speaker voice coil) that speaker coil usually measures between 3.2 and 8 ohms (sometimes as high as 16-32 ohms), when disconnected from the secondary winding

There are a couple of measurements you can make with a voltmeter, but be very cautious in you are dealing with fatal voltages on the tube plate. Turn the radio on and see if you have at least 200volts DC on the plate (P1) and on (P2) 210volts
and then ZERO volts on both the cathode and grid.


If you do then turn off the radio. Then disconnect the radio and wait for the filter caps to discharge. Then disconnect the primary wire on the audio transformer to the plate of the audio tube. Do a resistance check on the wire itself, you should show it as zero Ohms (full continuity) so between the end of the wire and the transformer ground wire you should see maybe a thousand or more ohms. If so the primary winding is not suspect. Reconnect and then disconnect one of the secondary leads that goes to the speaker voice coil. You have two wires on the secondary, one of them needs to be disconnected at the speaker solder tab. When you connect your ohm meter to the unsoldered wire then connect the other lead of the meter to the still soldered terminal. You are then measuring the secondary winding resistance of about 3-16 ohms. If you get no reading then the voice coil is bad. If so then you need to repair the speaker or replace. That becomes a problem. you could wire in an external mounted speaker .
where did you loose the audio signal with the signal tracer in the path to the speaker? That will be a very big clue. Since you have a signal through the detector it sounds good to that point, so the previous sections are not at fault.
avatar
Resistance is Futile
Member
Member

Number of posts : 977
Age : 73
Registration date : 2008-03-12

Back to top Go down

Re: Solved****Crosley 515, no sound

Post by Sponsored content


Sponsored content


Back to top Go down

Page 1 of 3 1, 2, 3  Next

Back to top

- Similar topics

 
Permissions in this forum:
You cannot reply to topics in this forum