Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

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Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Sep 10, 2012 6:01 am

Well, this tv has been in pieces for too many years. I've lost parts to it, but, think I can overcome that.
The chassis has been sitting on my bench now since at least 1995, according to my chassis notes.

I had re capped it at the time, and, as I remember, it was playing, but, with major sync problems. I haven't touched it in manny years, except dropping screws in it by accident, and, stealing tubes out of it.
I still have other stuff to catch up on first, but, I definately will be getting back on this rare porthole tv.
The cabinet is pretty rough, but, repairable.
Speaker is shot. That's replaceble....
I have all the knobs for it, and, that includes the fine tunning lever.
I think this baby can still be saved.
I'll take pictures as soon as possible to show where I left off.
Bill Cahill



Last edited by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:12 am; edited 1 time in total

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Sep 10, 2012 9:17 pm

Well, I've got some good news......... Very Happy
After re connecting a couple of componnents, and, replacing the power cord, I fired set up on my variac. No source yet connected to antenna...
I have hiss in speaker, a raster on the screen, and, snow on screeen .
Next, I need to connect a matching transformer to it, and, connect it to cable.
Looks hopeful, though. Yep. She's got high vlotage!
Ion trap again needs adjustment. I have a shadow, but, that's minorl Well, that's certainly good news to me........ Next, I'll connect it to cable, and, see what it does...
Bill Cahill
And, that after something like 18 years..........

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Mon Sep 10, 2012 11:43 pm

Well, I've got both good, and, bad news....
Connecting the cable got the reception.
I figured out the fine tune adjustments, and, did that.
I tried a different vert. osc. tube, and, it made a major difference in vert. hold. For awhile it was actually stable.I adjusted focus magnets, and, ion trap, and, for awhile things looked pretty good, escept for focus. I now know picture tube is indeed good.

Then, things started going downhill..
Picture got dimer, vert.got short, sync got very bad, sound vollume went way down, and, eventually, picture got too dim to watch. I shut it off, and, felt filters. One filter is beginning to get warm. Apparently, it is breaking down.
I turned it off a few min., then, brought it back up. At first, it was almost good, again, then, quickly went down hill.

I think one, or, more filter caps is failing.
I'll have to go back to testing voltages to start to find where my failure is.

But, the good news is when I fix this problem, set will be nearly fixed....
I still need to get pictures.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:21 am

And, finally, here they are.. My first batch of pictures.
The bad news is whatever is breaking down is already doing it. Notice vert., and, horiz. side of picture are short. The picture was also noticebly dimmer.
But, here they are...........













Notice it is still out of focus. I have some rust removal to do along with some repainting.
O.K.. It's a mess. But, it's playing. It's a matter of fix the problems... Smile

Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by simplex1040 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:55 am

Neato....
looks like david letterman on the tv
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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:02 am

Hi, Sim. I think it is.
Keep an eye open. I'll be working on it more tommorrow.
I'm beginning to get excited on this set.
It actually had better brightness than this. Something IS breaking down. I think it's electrolytics.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by simplex1040 on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:18 am

They tend to throw wrenches in the works. I have an 8 track player that has a bad motor run cap causing it to slow down.
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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:23 am

I had totally re capped it, including electrolytics 18 years ago. But, when I noticed something wasn't right, I felt filter cans I had installed on top of chassis. One was warm.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:58 am

By the way, though it looks like heck, spkr. actually sounded pretty good. I think I'll patch it.
Bill Cahill
And, set has fairly decent audio fidelity..............

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 11, 2012 10:01 pm

Been thinking today about where to start looking for what is turning into a power supply short. I think I'll just start by replacing the two new old stock cans I used at the time. The rest are individual Japanese electrolytics I installed at the time of first rebuild.

During the week, I'm going to attempt to unbury the cabinet.
It will eventually need to be dug out anyway to retore it..........
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by cwmoser on Wed Sep 12, 2012 8:57 am

My Raytheon C-1602 Chassis 16AX23 is a little different than yours - mine uses the 16AP4 CRT.
I need to take it back to the workbench to make some adjustments.

Focus on mine is a problem too - I had thought it was that I had a bad 16AP4.
Maybe its something else.







Carl

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:42 pm

Hi, Carl. Do you have the same tuner?
May I see that side? Is there an easy way to remove rust?
I won't spray with water.
Yeh. The focus on this set is awful.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by cwmoser on Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:02 pm

Here is my tuner:


I cleaned rust with Naval Jelly, then Brasso.
Some parts I repainted like the CRT Yoke Tower, Power Supply, and Flyback cage.

Yeah, my focus is off too - I need to bench the Chassis again.
In addition, I'm getting an intermittent with the built in antenna.

When I bench it, I'm going to paint the Flyback cage bronze like I did with my
Philco projection TV. Might make it my "signature" to paint the Flyback
cages bronze:-)

Carl


Bill Cahill wrote:Hi, Carl. Do you have the same tuner?
May I see that side? Is there an easy way to remove rust?
I won't spray with water.
Yeh. The focus on this set is awful.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:05 pm

Thanks. I will repaint tower, and, transformer original colors of black. Not sure what, if anything, on cage.
The fine tunning was a breeze to adjust.
Haven't been able to work on it today. Major computer problems, and, e mail is down.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Wed Sep 12, 2012 10:06 pm

Do you have your original back cover? May I see it??
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by cwmoser on Thu Sep 13, 2012 2:23 pm

Here is the back on my Raytheon:


I stained the inside of my Cabinet with an Ebony Stain.
Also, painted black the metal CRT next protector.

The tuning knob is for the Antenna - got to look at why its intermittent.
If you discover your Focus issue, let me know as it might be what
is wrong with mine too.

Carl



Bill Cahill wrote:Do you have your original back cover? May I see it??
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 13, 2012 3:39 pm

I will, It's terrible on mine. Wonder if the focus magnets could be weak.................
I"ve had that problem on the RCA tv's. That might be the problem.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:59 am

I was correct. Yesterday, I tried set with volt meter connected to 5U4. Voltage was 40 volts low.
After playing for about 6 min. voltage got down to 60 volts low. Picture was very dim.

I replaced electrolytics. I have one more to do. A couple had spat out electrolyte. And, these were new Japanese. There were two where a blow hole occurred, and, rubber was bulged.
That included one going to rectifier, and, one going to vertical output.
I'm taking no chances. I'm replacing all of them.
I'll have pictures, and, more information here as it comes. Proves, sadly, that today's caps are just as unreliable as yesterday's.
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by cwmoser on Sun Sep 16, 2012 8:48 am

I'll have to pull my chassis and measure voltages.
Unfortunately, I stuff the Electrolytic cans and cannot see if
my caps bulged. All that work:-(

Carl

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:47 pm

Well, I've got both good, and, bad news.....
Good.
After replacing parts, plus, one orange drop that decided to short, I got set up, and, running. Good audio. After adjstments, screen lit. Power supply voltage is greatly improved.
Bad news.
I lost my vertical sweep. I have only a horizontal white line.
Back to square one.
Bill Cahill Shocked Sad

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:12 am

Well, I replaced the electrolytics. Got better voltages, but, problems persist. Here is what I have found so far.
When first warmed up, variac set at 120 volts.
B+ on 5U4 runs at generally 370 volts. A little high, but, not bad.
Vertical sometimes stands still, barely. Usually not, though. It usually is running up fairly fast. Sync barely stable. Brightness, and, contrast, both very good. Audio great.
After 3 min. voltage goes down about3-5 volts. Sync gets a little worse.

After about 4 min. voltage goes down about another 20 volts. Brightness not as good. Vol. down slightly. Vertical rolling up faster, sync uncontrollable.
At 5 min. voltage goes down about another 15 volts. Brightness noticebly dimmer. Picture turns negative. Sound gets loud buzz, vol. lower.
By about 7 min. Both sound, and, raster fade out. Screen goes dark.
At this point the voltage has dropped a total of 70 volts.

Shutting set down I flet around. New electrolytics cool. Filter choke noticebly warm to the touch.
Something is breaking down, and, making set draw alot of current.
Now, the question is what??
Anybody got any ideas??
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 20, 2012 4:24 am

cwmoser wrote:I'll have to pull my chassis and measure voltages.
Unfortunately, I stuff the Electrolytic cans and cannot see if
my caps bulged. All that work:-(

Carl

I desperately need your help.
Will you please show some good quality pictures, close ups of the following circuits...
Sync, AGC, Video amp.
Also, show a good closer view, not too close, of that entire area showing parts layout.

Reason? I have again found that yet, another Raytheon, namely this one, is not wired the same as the schematic shows.
On every ten inch, and, twelve inch set by them, including one they made for Airline, the wiring was noticebly different.
And, everyone of them were also different from eachother.

I will point out here that your set uses the 16AP4 metal picture tube, and, mine has the original all glass early round tube.
Mounting is very different for both picture tubes, as well.
I have a feeling Raytheon must have been having quite a problem with sync stability in their tv's, and, were trying every way to rid the problem....
I'd be willing to bet they were in the shop more than in the home....
How stable is your set???
How crittical are settings?
Bill Cahill

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by cwmoser on Thu Sep 20, 2012 8:11 am


My controls are also kinda touchy but I can get the video
to stabilize.
Maybe we both have some design issues with the circuitry.

Here are detailed pictures of the bottom of my chassis:

http://www.cerant.com/TV%20Raytheon%20Porthole%20Model%20M-1601%20C-1602%20Chassis%2016AX23%20-%201950/00%20RESTORATION%20PROCESS/16%202012May16%20-%20Chassis%20Detail%20-%20Bottom/

Carl

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 20, 2012 9:43 am

OH, my God is yours different!
Tube line up is different, looks like you have one less tube, and, tubes are moved around. Plus, it looks like it's different even from the schematic, as well. It's certainly not like mine!
I'm absolutely shocked!!
Mine has the sync sep., the 6SN7, then, the two video amps, one a 12AU7, and, the other a 12AT7 off to the side a little, and, at the side of the chassis, right behind the hv cage, the 6AU6 AGC tube.
What is your line up???
Looks like you also have some differences in your vertical oscilator.

By the way, the focus adjustment is a recessed screw at the top of the assembly. You will have to stick your screwdriver blade through the first large hole in the back, and, you will easily find the adjustment screw with it.
The two adjustments on the side are vertical, and, horizontal centering.
You will have to adjust all of these in conjuction with your ion trap to get everything right.
Why don't you post the entire post on yours in the tv forums here? I think there will be interest, and, I know I'll be interested.
Bill Cahill
How did your cabinet come out? MIne needs mucho work.

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Re: Raytheon Model C-1602 16" porthole tv Now with pictures!

Post by Bill Cahill on Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:06 pm

Well, back to bad luck.
I replaced one cap that ended up being a bypass cap on video. I don't think my cap was even bad, but, I replaced it, anyway.
Decided to check some resistors.. Found out all three resistors on vert. hod control were off value. I couldn't replace the 330K because I didn't have it.
I replaced the 100K.
I also had to jury rig a replacement for 27 k.
All said, and, done, I am now back to a horizontal white line.
I give up for the day...........
Bill Cahill

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